# How did an American pass himself off as a Duke in Britain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476 "2009-02-04T21:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/81 "2011-01-18T00:07:24Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I’ll be surprised if you can find one. Once granted, a peerage descends according to a specific formula e.g. heirs male; heirs general; special rules allowing a more distant heir to inherit etc. I’ve never heard of an example where there has been a financial requirement attached to a peerage. I think I’ve got it now, and you are evidently correct. I was recalling something I’d read about _German_ nobility; a nobleman/woman, which in German aristocratic families was often every family member, could lose their privileges and honors for “conduct unbecoming”–and in some times and regions this included engaging in regularly paid work as in a job. Presumably, this circumstance would often have come about as the result of dissipation of wealth, so there would have been a correlation if not direct causation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/82 "2011-01-18T01:44:15Z")
Yeah, literature is full of stories of British (and other European) noblemen who have no money and are hoping to marry heiresses or sell their estates. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/83 "2011-01-18T13:26:04Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Yeah, literature is full of stories of British (and other European) noblemen who have no money and are hoping to marry heiresses or sell their estates. Not just literature - see [Charles Spencer-Churchill, 9th Duke of Marlborough](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Spencer-Churchill,_9th_Duke_of_Marlborough), who married Consuelo Vanderbilt and used the Vanderbilt money to do up Blenheim Palace. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/84 "2011-01-18T16:07:53Z")
Titled Brits seeking wealthy American heiresses is a subplot of the current PBS series _Downton Abbey_, and this classic novel: [The Buccaneers - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Buccaneers) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/85 "2011-01-18T17:09:35Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I definitely recall seeing “Britisher” used in old _Commando_ and _War Picture Library_ comics that I used to read as a kid; you’d also get _Englander_, _Tommy_, and _Schweinhund_ thrown in there as well (as a couple of other posters have noticed) just to keep things interesting. 🙂 You forgot “AIIEEEEEEEE!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Ex\_Duchess\_of\_Manchester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8797f3/32.png) [@Ex\_Duchess\_of\_Manchester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Duchess_of_Manchester)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/86 "2011-01-25T20:33:52Z")
I can shed some light on some of these posts. Alexander Michael is my child. As is Ashley Faith Maxine. The children and myself had no say in the matter of the extensive thread of their names. It’s just the way it was. Of course this is all now in question due to their “legitimacy” being in question. The Duke had been married prior to our marriage in 1993, he was married in 1984. And didn’t officially divorce until 1996, 3 years into our marriage. The children and I only found out in 2009. After a very nasty divorce and loss of custody in 2007, The Duke admitted to his bigamy in 2009. With this revelation, the trustee’s overseeing the maintenance of his children had to cease with all payments, as they are now considered “illegitimate”. The Duke cut off his children. So let’s leave the length of children’s name alone. They’ve been through enough. ---
**Author:** ![theMPF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@theMPF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theMPF)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/87 "2012-04-09T12:28:20Z")
Alexander Montagu holds the title of Duke of Manchester, having been the eldest son of Angus, the 12th Duke. Angus inherited the title from his older brother, Sidney Arthur Robin George Drogo Montagu, 11th Duke of Manchester. The lineage of the family is available on [peerage.com](http://peerage.com) and also [HERE.](http://www.thedukeanddoxieofmanchester.info/p/lineage.html) Due to their profligacy, and lack of judgement, the much reduced wealth of the earlier Manchester Dukes was placed in a series of trusts. The present duke, Alexander, 13th Duke of Manchester, receives barely enough to subsist at a lower middle class level. He cannot hold a job. He has been incarcerated for assault and fraud in Australia, where he was born and mostly raised. See Articles [http://www.thedukeanddoxieofmanchester.info/p/articles.html](http://www.thedukeanddoxieofmanchester.info/p/articles.html) He left Australia and came to the United States. It is the belief of Wendy, who he married in 1993, that he was facing deportation when he rushed her into marriage less than a week before their first child was born. Immediately after the birth, Wendy reports, she was forced to go to Immigration and prove she was citizen and that they were married. However, this was untrue. Alex had never gotten a divorce from his first wife, Marion Stoner. [http://www.thedukeanddoxieofmanchester.info/2012/03/marion-stoner-first-marriage-of.html](http://www.thedukeanddoxieofmanchester.info/2012/03/marion-stoner-first-marriage-of.html) Alex did not divorce Stoner until 1996, three years after the birth of the couple’s son. He did so then only, evidently, because his mother in Australia, insisted. He failed to remarry Wendy and had not done so when he served divorce papers on her in December of 2006. I’m using the story to illustrate the cost of psychopaths. My most recent article can be read at [HOW the NeoCons Stole Freedom: Alexander, 13th Duke of Manchester – Making Sense of the Totally Bizarre](http://howtheneoconsstolefreedom.blogspot.com/2012/02/alexander-13th-duke-of-manchester.html) Following the tenets of journalism, all statements are documented. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476/88 "2012-04-09T14:11:28Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > In length, silliness and/or pretentiousness it doesn’t hold a candle to the others previously mentioned, but the iconic musician/producer [Brian Eno](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Eno)’s name is still noteworthy, esp. in full: > > Brian Peter George St. John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno Just bear in mind that “St. Jean Baptiste de la Salle” is actually one name! Seriously, that’s the name of a saint in the Catholic Church. > **[Jean-Baptiste de La Salle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_de_La_Salle)** > > St John-Baptiste de La Salle (/ləˈsæl/; .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}French: \[ʒɑ̃ batist də la sal\]; 30 April 1651 – 7 April 1719) was a French priest, educational reformer, and founder of the Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools. He is a saint of the Catholic Church and the patron saint for teachers of youth. He i... He was a French priest and a pioneer in Catholic education. He’s also the patron saint of teachers. So, Eno really has “only” 3 middle names. Two more than most of us, but still… he went to Catholic schools that were run by an order of monks founded by St. Jean Baptiste de la Salle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-an-american-pass-himself-off-as-a-duke-in-britain/484476.md?page=4)