# How did Bilbo get the ring from Gollum? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 7, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816 "2011-03-07T18:52:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816/21 "2011-03-07T23:25:17Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I understood that the Ring ‘wanted’ to leave that dank hole to return to the affairs of Elves, Dwarfs, Hobbits and (oh yeah, Men) and it contrived to be found by Bilbo. Which raises another issue. Did Bilbo really decide to give Frodo the Ring of his own free will or did the Ring decide that Frodo would make a better “owner” than Bilbo? Maybe the Ring had decided the Shire wasn’t all that much of an improvement over Gollum’s cave as far as opportunities for evil was concerned. It might have pushed the whole idea of a quest as a means of getting out in the wider world (although it turned out to be a bad plan as Frodo was able to stay focused on his mission). The Ring is the overlooked character in the series. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816/22 "2011-03-07T23:37:49Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > Uh…he wasn’t actually going to win the ring… > > Gollum went back to his hut to put the ring on, so he could strangle & eat Bilbo. Yes, but in the \*original \*version, Gollum promised Bilbo the ring if he won, and then found it was no longer on his island. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816/23 "2011-03-07T23:46:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Which raises another issue. Did Bilbo really decide to give Frodo the Ring of his own free will or did the Ring decide that Frodo would make a better “owner” than Bilbo? Maybe the Ring had decided the Shire wasn’t all that much of an improvement over Gollum’s cave as far as opportunities for evil was concerned. It might have pushed the whole idea of a quest as a means of getting out in the wider world (although it turned out to be a bad plan as Frodo was able to stay focused on his mission). The Ring is the overlooked character in the series. If Bilbo had kept the ring and gone on his little journey, it would have ended up safely in Rivendell almost 20 years sooner (I don’t remember the exact chronology, but Frodo spent a long time in the Shire after Bilbo left). Of course, when the black riders finally came to the Shire looking for a Baggins and the ring, Frodo would likely have been found and killed, just an innocent bystander. And once Bilbo got to Rivendell, would Gandalf have been able to persuade him to show the ring to Elrond, and would they have figured out the truth then? Would Elrond have called the council then, and what would they have decided to do? Bilbo was too old to do a quest (and he didn’t have a Sam to go with him), and no-one else could be trusted with it. Fun to speculate, but the story doesn’t come out very well this way. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816/24 "2011-03-07T23:58:19Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Yes, but in the \*original \*version, Gollum promised Bilbo the ring if he won, and then found it was no longer on his island. Well, yeah - but that _was_ the lie. The reason given for his lie was was to legitimize his finding & keeping the ring, since he objected to being the burglar. The fact that the lie was totally unnecessary was the evidence of the ring’s influence - nobody complains if you disarm an axe-murderer. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816/25 "2011-03-08T00:37:26Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > Well, yeah - but that _was_ the lie. The reason given for his lie was was to legitimize his finding & keeping the ring, since he objected to being the burglar. The fact that the lie was totally unnecessary was the evidence of the ring’s influence - nobody complains if you disarm an axe-murderer. Are you saying that Bilbo lied about Gollum going to find the ring so he could eat him (which would legitimize him keeping the ring)? Or are you referring to Gollum lying about giving the ring to Bilbo at all? ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816/26 "2011-03-08T03:57:06Z")
Thanks for the link! It clears things up and makes things murkier for me at the same time. I knew about the differences but after reading the website, I am sure now that when I was very young I must have read the 1st ed version somewhere! Where did I get a copy?!? ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816/27 "2011-03-08T16:46:41Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Are you saying that Bilbo lied about Gollum going to find the ring so he could eat him (which would legitimize him keeping the ring)? Or are you referring to Gollum lying about giving the ring to Bilbo at all? Gollum lied about giving Bilbo the ring if he won the contest. Then Bilbo lied to the others that he won the ring through the riddle contest, rather than his completely justifiable theft. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816/28 "2011-03-08T17:33:50Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > Gollum lied about giving Bilbo the ring if he won the contest. In the original version, Gollum wasn’t lying, he really intended to give Bilbo the ring. > [@](#): > > But funnily enough he need not have been alarmed. For one thing Gollum had learned long long ago was never, never, to cheat at the riddle-game, which is a sacred one and of immense antiquity. Also there was the sword. He simply sat and whispered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-bilbo-get-the-ring-from-gollum/573816.md?page=1)