# How did cats end up domesticated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 20, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691 "2009-07-20T23:27:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/21 "2009-07-21T15:12:19Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > I know my Sapphire has got me trained. She yells at me, I give her food. What self-respecting cat wouldn’t go for a deal like that? Old one but worth repeating: Dog: My hoomin pets me, feeds me, shelters me and loves me. They must be gods! Cat: My hoomin pets me, feeds me, shelters me and loves me. I must be god! ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/22 "2009-07-21T15:36:38Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Don’t forget the belly rubs. That was the deal-clincher right there. And the cheezburgers. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/23 "2009-07-21T15:44:15Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > To the contrary, current thinking suggests it was more a matter of cats habituating humans to care for them than humans selecting for cats willing to live with them. See, for example, [The Evolution of House Cats](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-taming-of-the-cat) from the June, 1009 _Scientific American_. Wow! That magazine has been around a looonnnnggggg time! ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/24 "2009-07-21T15:57:31Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > To the contrary, current thinking suggests it was more a matter of cats habituating humans to care for them than humans selecting for cats willing to live with them. See, for example, [The Evolution of House Cats](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-taming-of-the-cat) from the June, 1009 _Scientific American_. > [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Wow! That magazine has been around a looonnnnggggg time! Yeah, that’s the worst citation for _current_ thinking I’ve seen in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/25 "2009-07-21T15:59:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, there’s the Asian Leopard cat, closely related to the domestic cat. It’s a wild animal. But sometimes, the cats will take up living alongside humans because of the nice selection of rodents, and the protection from larger carnivores. Smart humans encourage this, and maybe even leave out some scraps at times. > > I suspect if you take 5000-10000 years of that, add in the human propensity of “oooh, isn’t it cute” for baby animals, which would then be taken in, and you end up with the house cat. And of course the Leopard Cat is the source of our hybrid domestic breed, the [Bengal Cat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_cat) :). ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/26 "2009-07-21T16:07:09Z")
Kittens are a lot more sociable than adult cats in most feline species. I suspect at least some of the [self-domestication](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-domestication) process had a lot to do with [neoteny](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny). ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/27 "2009-07-21T16:21:57Z")
Okay, I’ve read the Scientific American article I quoted above, and I’m confused about a point. It says current thinking is that cats were domesticated/domesticated themselves 10,000-9,500 years ago in the Fertile Crescent, almost certainly concomitant with the rise of grain-based agriculture (and its mouse problem). Then there’s a whole bunch of rather hastily laid out talk about cats migrating to Egypt 3,700 years ago and then spreading from Egypt to Greece and Rome and eventually going to Britain when the Romans did, although the article mentions there’s evidence that cats got to Britain before the Romans but that scholars cannot explain it. What the heck? If cats-living-with-humans started with the rise of what Jared Diamond calls the “suite” of the grain-based agriculture and associated other crops and domesticated animals, cats surely spread with that package of plant and animal domestication, which spread very rapidly. Certainly one would expect to find cats in each place humans employed the “Middle Eastern farming package,” because cats were part and parcel of grain storage. And that farming package reached Europe, Greece, and Britain long before Roman expansion, didn’t it? So I don’t understand what the scientists are saying. Why would anyone think that cats would spread across the world to reach Egypt, then wait there a few thousand years, then spread out _from Egypt_ to places that are _right next to_ cat-having places that have had cats for thousands of years already? It makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/28 "2009-07-21T16:50:10Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > So, folks, we’ve got two citations to a recent Scientific American ariticle which is more comprehensive than you can imagine, and yet folks are still speculating? Why? Because we can. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/29 "2009-07-21T18:03:33Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > And of course the Leopard Cat is the source of our hybrid domestic breed, the [Bengal Cat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_cat) :). Yes, I own one, which is why I am up on what the Leopard cat does. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/30 "2009-07-21T20:11:33Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > So, folks, we’ve got two citations to a recent Scientific American article which is more comprehensive than you can imagine, and yet folks are still speculating? Why? Because while the article answers the first half of the question (“How did cats get domesticated?”), it doesn’t discuss the second part (“Why cats, as opposed to owls, foxes, and snakes?”). ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/31 "2009-07-21T20:32:43Z")
As per the OP asking why cats and not owls and foxes, I remember in Jared Diamond’s book he made the point that early civilization often made large efforts to domesticate practically all animals - and most animals just don’t take. As an example he mentions the elephant (still a work animal) and cheetah (used to be tamed by the hundreds for hunting in Egypt). These animals that have been regularily tamed for thousands of years but still are not domesticated. However, a few original species of small cats and the other domestic animals just happen to have characteristics that predispose them to it. Asking why cats and not foxes is similar to asking why horses and not zebras. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/32 "2009-07-22T01:22:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Old one but worth repeating: > > Dog: My hoomin pets me, feeds me, shelters me and loves me. They must be gods! > > Cat: My hoomin pets me, feeds me, shelters me and loves me. I must be god! Which is why the question at hand is wrong from the start. It is the human that is domesticated. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/33 "2009-07-22T01:32:29Z")
Our cat volunteered. He kept climbing up the screen door at breakfast time, and hung there asking for food and snuggles. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/34 "2009-07-22T01:47:30Z")
I didn’t think cats were technically domesticated. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/35 "2009-07-22T03:21:15Z")
I thought [Rudyard Kipling covered this one](http://www.online-literature.com/kipling/163/). ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/36 "2009-07-22T03:22:57Z")
> [@furlibusea](#): > > I didn’t think cats were technically domesticated. Joke? Hard to tell with this crowd :). But, yes - they’re domesticated, as the existence of numerous different breeds can attest. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/37 "2009-07-22T08:35:35Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > And that farming package reached Europe, Greece, and Britain long before Roman expansion, didn’t it? So I don’t understand what the scientists are saying. Why would anyone think that cats would spread across the world to reach Egypt, then wait there a few thousand years, then spread out _from Egypt_ to places that are _right next to_ cat-having places that have had cats for thousands of years already? It makes no sense. I agree. I had the same issue when I read the article. But note that the article says cats reached Britain before the Romans, but supposedly was introduced to most of the rest of Europe by the Romans. I suspect that cats in fact did spread across Europe well before the Romans, but we may not have the evidence. Not everything gets included in the fossil record. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/38 "2009-07-22T14:30:35Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > So, folks, we’ve got two citations to a recent Scientific American ariticle which is more comprehensive than you can imagine, and yet folks are still speculating? Why? Because this is the Dope, dammit! 😉 As for the June 1009 issue of _Scientific American_… I don’t even bother to look at issues from before the Declaration of Independence. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/39 "2009-07-22T15:01:13Z")
Jeeze, half my posts inspire no comment at all, but make one little typo… ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691/40 "2009-07-22T15:50:45Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I agree. I had the same issue when I read the article. But note that the article says cats reached Britain before the Romans, but supposedly was introduced to most of the rest of Europe by the Romans. I suspect that cats in fact did spread across Europe well before the Romans, but we may not have the evidence. Not everything gets included in the fossil record. Sure. But the principle of parsimony would lead one to believe domesticated cats were introduced the same way in Europe as they were everywhere else – by diffusing with grain-based agriculture, and not by Marc Antony bringing pussy back to Rome (figuratively speaking). So I would expect scientists to be confident that was the case _unless_ they found shocking evidence to the contrary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-cats-end-up-domesticated/503691.md?page=1)