# How did certain colleges become (American) football powerhouses? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125 "2006-11-04T22:00:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/41 "2006-11-06T20:40:26Z")
[QUOTE=glee] I’m posting from the UK where we only get some American Football. Hopefully you won’t mind answering these questions: - presumably there isn’t a National College League, but is there a National College KO event? [/QUOTE] In addition to what others have mentioned about the BCS and the various polls, keep in mind that there are 11 conferences in NCAA Division 1-A, and each conference has around 10 teams each (some have less, some more). In effect, you have 11 little leagues under the aegis of one larger league (Division 1-A), because teams in the conferences have to play the other conference teams (or some subset) every season. The problem comes in when you try to rank the various teams. You run into issues such as relative conference strength, for example is the Big-12 champ considered better than the Big-10 champ? Or is the SEC runner-up better than the WAC champ? The polls try to remedy this, but are generally only as good as the writers and coaches who are polled. A NCAA Division 1-A playoff has been a topic of discussion for some years now, but the outcome seems to be that since it would interfere with pro football and/or disrupt the existing bowl game system, it’s a non-starter. Notes for non-US readers: NCAA: National Collegiate Athletic Association Bowl game: post-season exhibition type game between good teams. Think FA Charity Shield, but post-season instead of pre-season. BCS: Bowl Championship Series. This is the body that determines the actual national championship bowl game lineup. This ranking has a computer generated statistical model involved. Death Penalty: [Death penalty (NCAA) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_%22Death_Penalty%22) ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/42 "2006-11-06T21:12:11Z")
How realistic is the book _I am Charlotte Simmons_ by Tom Wolfe in describing the collegiate sport system? ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/43 "2006-11-07T00:04:42Z")
[quote=633squadron] [li]Non-Americans who came into the NFL with some special talent. This category is overwhelmingly place kickers, though I do remember one or two punters also coming in. Nearly all the kickers who came in played assoc football, but a few played rugby league or union. It strikes me that a punter came into the league from Australian Rules.[/li][/QUOTE] Two, actually. Darren Bennett, who [according to wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Bennett_(footballer)) spent 12 years playing Aussie rules football, then 11 years as an NFL punter. Then there’s [Ben Graham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Graham_%28football%29), currently in his second season with the New York Jets. He also played 12 seasons in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/44 "2006-11-07T00:37:46Z")
[QUOTE=633squadron] On rare occasions, guys who didn’t play college ball for some reason but went on to play semi-pro and then went into the NFL. [/QUOTE] Such as [Michael Lewis](http://www.neworleanssaints.com/playerbio.cfm?playerid=115) of the Saints > [@](#): > > Lewis made his first NFL roster as a long shot in 2001 at the age of 29. Before making the final roster, Lewis had worked several jobs to support his family following his high school graduation 11 years earlier. Lewis has also had stints in NFL Europe, Arena Football and the Indoor Professional Football League. Are there any others? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/45 "2006-11-07T00:48:05Z")
[QUOTE=treis] There are three lists put out. One is the AP sports writers poll, the other is the USA Today Coach’s poll, and the last is the BCS (Bowl Championship Series). The BCS is a computer ranking based on strength of schedule, and many other factors. The top two ranked teams in the BCS play each other. I am not sure, but I believe the USA Today is required to crown the winner of the BCS championship game champion, but the AP poll is not. If those two pick different teams, there is a split national championship. This happened in 2003 where Louisana State Universty (LSU) won the BCS, and the University of Southern California (USC) won the AP championship. [/QUOTE] Not to rain on an otherwise excellent reply, but a few changes have come about recently. First, the AP is no longer involved in the process, as they have been replaced by the [Harris Poll](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris_Poll) for purposes of crowning champions (they are 1/3 of score in the formula used by the BCS), thanks to a bit of recent controversy. On a side note, ESPN is similarly no longer involved in the USA Today poll. While the AP continues to publish a poll, this is the first year that they’re not in the BCS picture, so I’m not sure how much weight will be given to whomever they put at #1 at the end of the year. It’s possible that it will continue having the same impact, but it could also go the way of other “champion pseudo-crowners”. If that last line makes no sense to you, ask an Alabama fan how many championships they have and in what years. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/46 "2006-11-07T00:49:23Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] Such as [Michael Lewis](http://www.neworleanssaints.com/playerbio.cfm?playerid=115) of the Saints Are there any others? [/QUOTE] the dude that Mark Wahlberg movie _Invicible_ is about. Vince Papale ---
**Author:** ![Yogurt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f0a364/32.png) [@Yogurt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yogurt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/47 "2006-11-07T01:16:01Z")
[QUOTE=Shalmanese] How realistic is the book _I am Charlotte Simmons_ by Tom Wolfe in describing the collegiate sport system? [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, I haven’t read it. The best recountings of football in my opinion as a former collegiate player are _Any Given Sunday_ , _The Program_ and for a sense of what it was like in the mid-80s _The Boz: Confessions of a Modern Anti-Hero_. Even at the smaller schools there continues to be off the field foolery in terms of academics, rule enforcement and “job placement”. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/48 "2006-11-07T02:15:13Z")
[QUOTE=Yogurt] Even at the smaller schools there continues to be off the field foolery in terms of academics, rule enforcement and “job placement”. [/QUOTE] Thankfully, it appears that a new breed of coaches and athletic directors are starting to find themselves coaching at powerhouses, ones that are a whole lot less likely to allow such transgressions to take place with their knowledge (and even investigate potential abuses themselves). Compare former Oklahoma coach Barry Switzer to the current Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops, for instance. Stoops has removed players from the team for things that would have led Switzer to, at most, not start the player in a single game. It’s far from a complete transition (very far), but I’m hoping that schools eventually learn that you can win cleanly, even if you have to work a bit harder at it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/49 "2006-11-07T02:41:44Z")
Sadly the cheating goes outside the institution too. Boosters who are big football fans try to bribe players to go to their schools. Un of Mick had a basketball team corrupted by a booster a few years ago and still has not recovered from the penalties. Many large programs have been caught. They usually try to return to the old way of doing business. A high caliber football team can finance a large part of the Universities budget. It pays for all the other revenue losing activities. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/50 "2006-11-07T05:03:57Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I’m not sure I understood this parenthesis. Are you saying that the “death penalty” was _]too_ effective? It would seem to me that burying S.M.U. would have given other potential violators a reason to think twice. [/QUOTE] Yes, it was too effective, and destroyed a program for good. In fact, SMU’s woes ultimately brought about the end of the Southwest Conference, whose members now are in the Big XII, WAC, and Conference USA. I think it’s pretty certain that no program will ever be dealt the punishment that SMU was. It’s kind of a game of chicken, or mutually assured destruction. Most colleges self-report when violations are found and conduct their own investigations - the assumption is that the NCAA will treat them better if they, not the press or the NCAA itself, voluntarily punish themselves when a violation is found (e.g. University of Minnesota). That’s why the University of Oklahoma dismissed two prominent players when it was discovered that they were getting paid without actually going to work. The NCAA has the nuclear option in their pocket but they really don’t want to use it. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125/51 "2006-11-07T05:07:51Z")
[QUOTE=glee] I’m surprised more Rugby Union players don’t go into American Football, since I gather the money is pretty good. [/QUOTE] The start-stop action in American football–you stop play when a player is tacked, and usually take ~35-45 seconds to set the ball and line up before starting the next play–means players don’t have to have the stamina of rugby players (where play is pretty much continuous until a knock-on or out-of-bounds). You also substitute frequently between plays (11 on the field at any time from a total pool of 48), and you are not out of the game when you leave for a substitute. Consequentially, American football players are typically gigantic. Personally I prefer Rugby Union/League because the way the game is played keeps players at a manageable size. In my opinion the nature of American football is such that players will as a matter of course get injured quite frequently, meaning the game turns on injury rather than skill. If you are a US football fan, I encourage you to check out the saturday night rugby games on Fox Sports World; it’s interesting to see how American football derived from this game–e.g. the “snap” in US football comes from a particular rugby tactic followed: Because Rugby required a ballcarrier to let go of the ball when he’s tackled, he usually just rolls on top of the ball and lets it slip out behind him between his legs, which (because of the offsides rules) make it difficult for the opposing team to grab it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-certain-colleges-become-american-football-powerhouses/379125.md?page=2)