Arguably it is symbolic washing.
It is symbolic washing, but it’s Jewish in origin, not Christian. Jews were doing mikvahs long before Jesus came along. Christian baptism is actually one of the few retentions of Jewish purity rituals.
Yeeesss . . . but not quite I think.
Baptism as a prerequisite to (ultimate, spiritual, non-limbo*** inclusion) in the after life? Yes.
Baptism as a prerequisite to not being “unclean?” I don’t think so, not in the mikvah sense. I don’t get the sense (ridiculous orthodox) Christians would be horrified at the prospect of an unbaptized heathen wandering into their church or shaking hands with them, they’d just say, hey, good luck in limbo/Hell, might wanna take care of that before you die.
I do get the sense (making this up, the conversation per se hasn’t happened) my (ridiculous orthodox) Lubavitch work acquaintances would freak some serious out if some chick shook hands with them after . . . you know . . . without having . . . you know.
*** limbo is as most of us know in limbo in the RCC. Fine.
They didn’t get cut out one by one, the choice was “all or nothing”. Paul headed the “nothing” field, Peter the “all” field, but Peter had a change of heart (the dream about the feast, where he is told to eat everything that’s being presented to him), so the “don’t try to push old-law requirements on our new men” side won.
The biggest problem they were having was with circumcision (I don’t have a Bible here, sorry, but it appears shortly before Peter’s dream IIRC). A baby can complain when his foreskin gets cut off, but the parents can stick their fingers in their ears and go “la la la”; a grown-up who is told that he needs to have his foreskin cut off in order to achieve salvation is highly likely to take the door and never come back.
eerrr…Christians around here will not eat food that has been prayed over…so I am not sure about the part that I have highlighted.
That’s correct, the function changed with Christianity, but they still got the ritual from Judaism, just like they got the eucharist from pagan traditions, but adapted it to their own theology.
The only rite of ritual impurity I can think of is the requirement that one fast for a period of time before receiving the Eucharist, that the RCC still holds, and Seventh Day Adventists and their dietary beliefs.
Regards,
Shodan
I think the whole idea of ritual impurity came about due to confusion as to the exact cause of disease. People noticed that touching or eating certain things made you sick, but disease is such a powerful and mysterious force that people, unaware of the germ theory, continued to believe that it was punishment inflicted by God for touching or eating the forbidden.
The question is, now that we all know better due to modern medical science, do most Jews, Muslims, etc. really believe that God cares about whether you violate any one of these purity rules? Or do they (those who do) continue to obey them in order to maintain their identity as members of that particular cultural group?
In other words, do some Jews believe, “Sure, you can start eating pork–or cheeseburgers–and G-d won’t punish you, but if you do you won’t exactly be Jewish anymore.”?
What does that mean? Prayed over by whom?
The Book of Common Prayer included it until fairly recently - my mom’s copy of the 1928 version includes it, and IIRC it wasn’t taken out until the 1980’s version.
My grandmother was churched in the '40s/'50s.
There are some Chinese customs which involve the dedication food to the various Taoist/Buddhist gods and goddess. I can’t remember if people do eat them, but I have heard about this when younger. Sometimes at the back of the various food centres in Singapore, you can find altars dedicated to some of those idols (On the first floor of a public flat near my home there’s an altar to Guan Yu in plain sight), and more conservative Christians I knew when young will urge us not to eat at those places.
Of course, this falls into ‘food dedicated to idols’ category. I don’t know of anyone pulling a big fuss about this now, but there are of course many sects of Christianity in Singapore too.
Huh. How weird. Couldn’t you just, you know, say Grace before you eat it?
“Denied! I dedicated it to MY God, not yours, ha!”
It is what in your heart that makes you pure or not, it is not some tenants set down by the ruling clergy class. JC was a shit stirrer.
I guess you mean tenets.
Do you class JC as believing the former or the latter of the two positions you note? I honestly can’t tell . . . .
Sorry mate, yep spell check is not working!
JC said the former.
Got it, and that’s the Pauline view that seems to have prevailed early on . . . though ISTR being told that just out of a Caesar’s wife type respect, JC was compliant with dietary laws, etc. Anyone have a reliable recollection/cite for laws JC can be shown to have kept, and those he arguably broke (healing on the Sabbath was one I recall, but I’d imagine there’s some potential Talmudic out for that)?
It would appear the spell check is working just fine…
This is exactly my view, I always considered that dietary laws came about for one of three reasons (two of which are quite blasphemous, but forgive me)
- The prophet (whichever one you wish to nominate) noticed a link between disease and a particular food, so to “save” people from disease he just said that god told him this food cannot eat (yeah, its an oversimplification, so shoot me)
- The prophet had a business interest in a chicken farm
- The leader simply didn’t like pork
Do feel free to substitute prophet here for whoever was spreading the word, recording it or otherwise disseminating it.
This is exactly correct - during certain events and festivals a lavish feast will be “offered” to the relevant Taoist / Buddhist gods - or to the family ancestors. Prayers will be said over the food, it is after all an “offering”. However both religions are quite pragmatic and consider it ok to eat the food afterwards (I have seen whole suckling pigs offered before, and it would be a crying shame to see that go to waste).
Christians however tend to view it as a violation of “you shall have no other god but god” and that idolatry thingy…so they don’t like to take.