# How did fanfiction get started? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765 "2003-12-30T14:30:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/1 "2003-12-30T14:30:30Z")
Like many other things, it probably didn’t get started on the 'net, but only proliferated. Prior to that, what might have been the first movie or TV show that inspired people to write their own spinoffs? ST:TOS, maybe? Star Wars? ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/2 "2003-12-30T14:36:13Z")
I can’t say about fanfic in general, but slash goes back to the Kirk/Spock ladies of the late 1960’s. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/3 "2003-12-30T15:39:38Z")
Star Trek was eessentially first – people started writing about it after it went off the air (slash came later, BTW – most early Trek fiction was straight adventure). Before ST, there may have been fanfic of other TV shows or movies from time to time, but ST made it into a phenomenon. It obviously had to be about a science fiction show, though, since fanzines in science fiction dated from the 30s and often had fiction. Nothing else had an outlet for anyone who wanted to write fanfic. ---
**Author:** ![Loneraven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c0e974/32.png) [@Loneraven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loneraven)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/4 "2003-12-30T16:56:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*Before ST, there may have been fanfic of other TV shows or movies from time to time, but ST made it into a phenomenon. > \*\* I’ll agree with ST being what made fanfiction into a phenomenon, but don’t forget books. [Bored of the Rings](http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0575074957/qid=1072803219/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/202-5214876-8447838), despite its publication, is definitely fanfiction, and was, IIRC, published in the seventies. I wouldn’t be surprised if fanfiction of some sort or another had existed before ST, even - just not distributed. Fanzines and later the internet were facilitators, but they didn’t create fanfiction. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/5 "2003-12-31T01:36:52Z")
I don’t know if you’ll count this as fanfiction, but, sometime in the late 12th century, Chrétien de Troyes died, leaving his epic novel _Perceval le gallois_ unfinished. This led to several minor authors writing “continuations” of the story. The legend of the Grail predates Chrétien, but those works were based on _his_ telling of the story. Fanfic is probably as old as litterature. It just found its perfect distribution medium in the internet. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/6 "2003-12-31T02:14:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > **How did fanfiction get started?** Deep in the land of Mordor, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Sauron forged a master ring, and into this ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/7 "2003-12-31T03:13:14Z")
I researched slash fiction for one of my projects, and it’s pretty much widely accepted in the slash and non-slash circles that ST:TOS is what started it all…Now I’m sure people were making up stories of their favorite characters long before that but I think it didn’t have any recognition or a name until ST:TOS. Or if it did, nobody I’ve come across remembers it… ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/8 "2003-12-31T03:52:06Z")
Well _The Trouble with Tribbles_ episode of ST TOS may be the ultimate fan fiction. It was written by a fan and submitted to the producers of the show and they bought it. Star Trek used to have a ‘you may submit scripts’ policy. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/9 "2003-12-31T04:43:47Z")
After the Lord did smite the publishers, he told his chosen people to go forth and write fic… ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/10 "2003-12-31T05:09:15Z")
I’d suspect Comic Book fan fiction predates Star Trek. I believe Roy Thomas started out writing fanfic for a fanzine called Alter Ego, and he was hired by Marvel as a pro in 1966 or so. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/11 "2003-12-31T05:58:02Z")
Blame Hugo Gernsbeck. His “scientifiction” magazines, starting with _Amazing Stories_ in 1926, had letter columns that printed the names and addresses of the writers. They shortly started writing to one another, and the more adventuresome noticed that so many of them lived in and around NYC that they could start clubs. And the clubs begat fanzines, although the term appears not to have been coined by Russ Chauvenet until 1941. The first fanzine is credited to the Science Correspondence Club’s _The Comet_ in May 1930, edited by the soon to be well known Raymond A. Palmer, followed closely by Allen Glasser’s _The Planet_ from the New York Scienceers in July 1930. As indicated by the names of the groups, these zines were slanted toward science discussions at first, but they and the hundreds of other fanzines in the 30s expanded to allow virtually any kind of related work into their pages. I don’t know when the first piece of fan fiction appeared, but definitely before the end of the decade. Ray Bradbury’s first published stories were in the pages of his own fanzine, _Futuria Fantasia_, which he produced from 1939-41, and that was already a commonplace. Many, many thousands of fanzine titles have appeared since the 1930s. I would be surprised if no one wrote about whatever shows or movies were currently the rage - lots of people wrote their own Conan or Tarzan or Sherlock Holmes stories, e.g. - but it’s certainly true that the graph takes a sharp upward turn after _Star Trek_ appears. Info taken from the _Encyclopedia of Science Fiction_ ---
**Author:** ![A\_wizard\_song\_for\_thee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/46a35a/32.png) [@A\_wizard\_song\_for\_thee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_wizard_song_for_thee)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/12 "2003-12-31T07:23:54Z")
Well, it depends on how you define fanfiction. Would you consider _Paradise Lost_ fanfiction? It takes the characters from the Bible and uses them in a story that is over and above that which is found in Genesis… Failing that, and, well, actually, this is earlier, there was something of a fad amongst Elizabethan writers to write the nymph’s reply to the shepard, based on Christopher Marlowe’s poem whose title now escapes me, but I’m pretty sure it’s something like “The Passionate Shepard to a Nymph” and its most famous line is “Come live with me and be my love.” I would think that these poems would certainly qualify as fanfic. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/13 "2003-12-31T10:49:08Z")
Sorry to be so late in replying; for some reason, I could never pull up this thread. Anyway, it all sounds about right. As far as pre-TOS and non-SF fan fiction, I’ve heard of Beatlemaniacs circa 1984 Mary-Sueing themselves into the Fab Four’s embraces. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/14 "2003-12-31T16:13:06Z")
I’m inclined to agree with **jovan** and **a wizard song for thee**. The concept has been around for as long as people have been writing stories in the first place. You could argue that _The Oresteia_ is Homer-based fanfiction, and I’d be _really_ surprised if the Victorians didn’t have a shot at rewriting Dickens from time to time. I mean, stories that come out in installments with lots of cliffhangers are an irresistible temptation, and there were all those people who didn’t want Little Nell to die… (What, me, trying to come up with an intellectual rationale for my favorite guilty indulgence? Nah…) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/15 "2003-12-31T17:40:59Z")
Would you mind providing me with an actual example of Dickens fanfiction? His life and his effect has been thoroughly examined by scholars and they would surely know who and when and where and under what circumstances these stories were written. I just don’t believe in 19th century fan fiction of this type. I don’t think people of that age saw it as an irresistible temptation. I think _you_ do and are trying to project it back to a time in which it doesn’t belong. But I am more than willing to be proved wrong on this, if you can come up with a solid cite. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/16 "2003-12-31T18:38:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > **(slash came later, BTW – most early Trek fiction was straight adventure).** I don’t usually post when I don’t have anything a propos to add, but am I the only person who got this pun? ::still giggling:: ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/17 "2003-12-31T18:55:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*I researched slash fiction for one of my projects, and it’s pretty much widely accepted in the slash and non-slash circles that ST:TOS is what started it all…Now I’m sure people were making up stories of their favorite characters long before that but I think it didn’t have any recognition or a name until ST:TOS. Or if it did, nobody I’ve come across remembers it… \*\* If you’ve written a paper on this, I’d be interested to see it! I’ve met K/S ladies at slash conventions who say they were writing stories in the late '60’s; I’ve no reason to disbelieve them, but that’s not really a verifiable citation, is it? The best I’ve come up with in a quick Google search is [A Short History of Early K/S](http://beyonddreamspress.com/history.htm), which indicates that the first K/S fanzines were published 1974-75. I suppose the ladies in question could have meant that they were writing privately–just for themselves or a few friends. ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/18 "2003-12-31T21:37:17Z")
I thought fanfiction was about people writing themselves into their favorite TV shows, ultimately leading into some sort of erotica. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/19 "2003-12-31T22:22:35Z")
Queen Elizabeth wrote pages of poetry in which Pistol gets it on with Bardolph. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765/20 "2003-12-31T22:36:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kasuo \* > \*\*I thought fanfiction was about people writing themselves into their favorite TV shows, ultimately leading into some sort of erotica. \*\* There are different types of fanfic: Genfic (general fan fiction) - Not erotica; it can even be written by and for children. You’re just using the characters you like in adventures of your own imagination. Mary Sue - This is where you write a super-idealized version of yourself into your chosen series, or a super-idealized character of your own design but not yourself. TNG fanfic fans will know Stephen Ratliff’s Marissa stories. Again, not necessarily erotica, although it can be if a teenager or grown-up is writing. But a lot of children write this sort of thing too; between the ages of 10 and 12, I wrote a number of TOS fics in which my Mary Sue character saved the Enterprise from many dangers, without any pre-pubescent romantic designs on Kirk, Spock, or even Chekov. Slash - This is erotica like the Kirk/Spock stories I’ve referred to, in which the writer (usually female) likes the idea of two (usually both male) characters getting together, and proceeds to write scenarios in which they do so. The writer doesn’t usually put herself into it (I never do). There is also hetero fic similar to slash; Scully/Mulder, for example, from the X-Files, but since I don’t write it, I don’t know much about it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fanfiction-get-started/221765.md?page=2)