# How did forkless ancients eat pasta? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 1, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492 "2001-08-01T16:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/1 "2001-08-01T16:14:17Z")
Ok, ok, so it’s not earth-shattering. But I was just wondering–if the fork wasn’t popular in Italy until the 1500’s, and pasta has been around since ancient Roman times, how the heck did they eat it? Surely not with chopsticks…and it’s a bit messy for fingers…and impossible to eat with a knife or a spoon alone. So, how? ---
**Author:** ![evilhanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba8739/32.png) [@evilhanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhanz)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/2 "2001-08-01T16:21:57Z")
With their fingers. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/3 "2001-08-01T16:31:24Z")
My understanding was that pasta was introduced in the 1500’s as well, coming from China in a round about way. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/4 "2001-08-01T16:33:50Z")
Has _long_ pasta been around in Europe since before the fork?; my understanding was that the idea for pasta noodles was brought back from China, maybe the Romans only made Farfalle or ravioli or something… ---
**Author:** ![don\_willard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@don\_willard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_willard)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/5 "2001-08-01T18:24:42Z")
Sir George Sitwell was working on a history of the fork, but I dont’t know if it was ever published. You can look in BOOKS IN PRINT and if there is such a thing BOOKS OUT OF PRINT. I don’t think Amazon. would have it, or just go to your local library and order HISTORY OF THE FORK by Sir George Sitwell and they will scour all libraries. If it is there they will probably find it. Sir George was the father of Osbert, Sacheverell, and Edith Sitwell, who were famous poets and Osbert was also a novelist and wrote a long autobiography. Osbert and Sacheverell were both Sirs and baronets and Edith was a Dame, conferred on her by the Queen. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/6 "2001-08-01T19:21:07Z")
I’ll second **Manda JO** and **Mangetout**. I’m not sure how rigorously this has been checked out, but legend has it that Marco Polo introduced pasta to Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/7 "2001-08-01T19:25:30Z")
Since the chinese invented pasta, I assume they used chopsticks, just like today. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/8 "2001-08-01T19:32:00Z")
don, was that from memory? ---
**Author:** ![City\_Gent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a87d85/32.png) [@City\_Gent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/City_Gent)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/9 "2001-08-01T19:40:08Z")
The Chinese did not invent pasta before the Mediterranean peoples. Making dough into strands and drying it for easy transport was well-established in the Mediterranean, particularly in the North African desert, long before the Chinese had noodles. I’ll have to dig a little if anyone wants a cite. ---
**Author:** ![City\_Gent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a87d85/32.png) [@City\_Gent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/City_Gent)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/10 "2001-08-01T19:43:04Z")
OK, I didn’t have to dig that hard: [http://www.pasta.co.uk/total\_pasta/history/](http://www.pasta.co.uk/total_pasta/history/) ---
**Author:** ![Arken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@Arken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arken)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/11 "2001-08-01T19:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > HISTORY OF THE FORK by Sir George Sitwell Glad to know there are such fascinating books out there to stimulate the young’ns to read more. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/12 "2001-08-01T23:45:23Z")
Cecil had this to say in [this column](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_036.html): > [@](#): > > Tradition has it (has it incorrectly, too, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves) that pasta first reached Europe when Marco Polo brought noodles from China early in the 14th century–which implies that America’s favorite lunchtime dish should really be called Sino-American spaghetti. In fact, however, this seems to be a baseless slander against the inventiveness of the Italian people. **Pasta was well known during the time of the Roman empire; Cicero loved the stuff.** ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/13 "2001-08-02T00:45:16Z")
Thanks, Rowrrbazzle, for confirming with Da Master that pasta was indeed around in ancient Rome. However, did Unca Cece ever mention how it was eaten? I’m picturing reclining patricians, getting sauce (butter/cheese/oil/whatever) all over their togas. Ever tried to eat any kind of sauced pasta with your fingers? 'Taint easy. Can’t imagine it becoming popular. Alternately, ever tried eating sauceless pasta? Icky-sticky! Kind of a funny image, actually! My suspicion is that they had some kind of fork or other implement (tongs maybe?) to eat it with. Come on, internet scholars, dig up a reference for me. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/14 "2001-08-02T03:05:58Z")
Noodles have been popular in Asia for hundreds, if not thousands of years. They eat them with chopsticks, which work way better than forks for noodles, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Oystaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@Oystaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oystaman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/15 "2001-08-02T03:12:34Z")
and why is it called a “fork” Where did that word come from? ---
**Author:** ![Osakadave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f07891/32.png) [@Osakadave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osakadave)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/16 "2001-08-02T03:39:51Z")
I ate my ramen last night with chopsticks. In fact the Japanese (and presumably most other Asians) will tell you it’s the only way to eat pasta. ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/17 "2001-08-02T03:45:56Z")
Thanks for the help, everybody, but I already knew that the Romans had eaten pasta dishes before they had any contact with China, and had figured out that the _Chinese_ used chopsticks. I was wondering what the _Europeans_ used. I haven’t seen any mosaics, other art, or writings that mention chopstick use in ancient Rome…so, I rehash the original post: How did ancient Romans eat pasta, if forks were not yet known or popular? (If anyone suggests chopsticks were in common use in ancient Rome, please include a reference for this.) thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/18 "2001-08-02T05:48:29Z")
The old way to get food to your mouth was with fingers. Spoons play a vital role because it was difficult to eat soup with your fingers. [http://www.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/utensil/forks.htmhttp://www.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/utensil/forks.htm](http://www.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/utensil/forks.htmhttp://www.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/utensil/forks.htm) * * * An Englishman named Thomas Coryate brought the first forks back to England after seeing them in Italy during his travels in 1608. The English ridiculed forks as being effeminate and unnecessary. “Why should a person need a fork when God had given him hands?” they asked. * * * In his book “Why We Eat What We Eat” Raymond Sokolov recounts the story of a boy confronted with pasta for the first time and creating a scene when he tried to eat it with his hands. Sokolov mentioned that if the boy had only been dining a few hundred years earlier the procedure would have been normal. ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/19 "2001-08-02T15:43:37Z")
Thanks, Doug! So, they made a big mess eating with their hands, then hit the Baths. What an image. A co-worker of mine suggested grabbing a bit of sticky pasta with the fingers, and dipping it into sauce. Well, guess we’ll never know for sure. By the way-- I would love to see your reference, but the link didn’t work. -Theobroma ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492/20 "2001-08-02T15:52:12Z")
Whoops! Figured out the link–the address was doubled. Try this: [http://www.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/utensil/forks.htm](http://www.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/utensil/forks.htm) Excellent cite, and thanks again. By the way, if the Italians had been making spectacles of themselves for 1000 years eating pasta with their hands, it’s no wonder the personal dining fork caught on there first! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-forkless-ancients-eat-pasta/74492.md?page=2)