# How did fourth or fifth century priests approach pagans to convert them? What were their tactics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 25, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412 "2017-05-25T14:19:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/21 "2017-05-26T15:17:05Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Yes yes, it all starts with kind words and gentle hands. > But later there is burning and bleeding and screaming and suffering to rival the plagues of egypt. **Moderator Note** **Weisshund** , religious jabs are not permitted in GQ. Keep your posts to the subject of the OP. This goes for everyone. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/22 "2017-05-26T15:19:40Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > And then come the Marxists who kill tens and tens of millions > [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Try hundreds of millions. > > And right after capitalism and exploitation of the Industrial Revolution destroyed and ruined hundreds of millions coincidentally. **Moderator Note** The same goes for political jabs. Further posts along these lines will be subject to a warning. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/23 "2017-05-26T16:13:54Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > One thing that Christianity offered pagan kings was a religion that would agree to underpin their authority as king. The Christian God grants earthly powers to kings, in a manner much the same as he grants spiritual powers to his clergy. Which may then become the divine right of kings. A religion that basically says that your king is anointed by God, and to rise against him is to rise against God’s will is a good call for most kings. Not hard to see how they would be swayed to adopt that as the national religion as opposed to random pagan beliefs. And God said, let there be “not”. 😉 Emphasis added. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/24 "2017-05-26T19:59:34Z")
In some situations it also helps to be [del]a nut job[/del] really fervent. Every once in a while some Westerner (usually American) gets jailed for proselytizing in North Korea. I imagine there’s always been a few such people ready to become martyrs while saving some souls. Tactic: Show up, start preaching and handing out literature. Although the latter wasn’t all that useful back when. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/25 "2017-05-26T20:15:33Z")
I remember one particular saint (I regretfully forget his name) whose tactics were to go out to the Germanic pagans’ holy groves under heavy escort, take an axe to their holy trees and essentially go “WELL ?! Am I smitten ? No ? WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW ?!”. But there were quite a few kooks back then. There was, for example, an Irish monastic sect that would go out at sea then sabotage their own boat’s steering, because God would take them where there were needed. Quite a few died at sea, presumably while God pondered his options. But to be fair, the overwhelming majority of conversions of that era were from the top down. That is to say, local and regional strongmen sought alliances with what was left of Rome in a bid for legitimacty and/or material support ; agreed to convert as part of the alliance because that didn’t cost them nothing ; their nobles converted too because they sought to look good to their chief ; and the peasants converted in turn because it was that or getting thumped in the mouth by the local noble’s thanes. As has already been stated, the whole “One God” ideology also helps underpin authoritarian despotic rule, so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/26 "2017-05-26T20:24:52Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Step #1: [Try to keep from getting killed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Converted_British_Family_Sheltering_a_Christian_Missionary_from_the_Persecution_of_the_Druids). Actually, if you go back a mere few centuries, the opposite is true. A number of Christian patriarchs (and individuals influenced by them - see [Perpetua](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passion_of_Saint_Perpetua,_Saint_Felicitas,_and_their_Companions) for example) deliberately defied Roman laws and actively sought martyrdom as a propaganda tool. They’d go out of their way to not observe requisite pagan customs (notably libations to the Emperor’s _genius_ or protector spirit), then agitated about it until they got sentenced to death for it by the local governor for causing trouble. The sentence was by law broadcasted far and wide, which was exactly what the Christians wanted, since that both painted the authorities as tyrants (on account of the Roman Empire had always made allowances and integrated foreign cults, for practical reasons - “Hey, your god looks neat. We could do with a god like that. You’re in.”) and because that way they could be martyr’d in public and broadcast their own message, which was “I don’t give a fuck about death, 'cause I’ll live forever because Jesus loves me”. Very impressive, of course, in a death cult sort of way. In turn, those early Christians would write up these martyrdom stories and essentially leaflet them. But then, Christ’s biographers did just that too, didn’t they ? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/27 "2017-05-26T20:32:15Z")
> [@Evan Drake](#): > > It’s not for nothing Christianity, slightly more merciful than competing creeds, was known as a ‘Womans’ Religion’ Whut ? Norse pagan society was distinctly more feminine-friendly that Christian society was. Viking women could inherit, own property, bear weapons, pursue any career a man could and there were robust sentences against rape (in fact, a man could be punished for merely pulling a woman by the sleeve. The rationale was that, if a woman complained about that little, it was because she _really_ didn’t want that fucker’s attentions). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/28 "2017-05-26T20:59:46Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Whut ? Norse pagan society was distinctly more feminine-friendly that Christian society was. Viking women could inherit, own property, bear weapons, pursue any career a man could and there were robust sentences against rape (in fact, a man could be punished for merely pulling a woman by the sleeve. The rationale was that, if a woman complained about that little, it was because she _really_ didn’t want that fucker’s attentions). IIRC, one distinction of Roman society too was that it accorded women a great deal of rights. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/29 "2017-05-27T15:01:13Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Mainly later but much was done as converting to [Christianity by the sword.](http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-63/conversion-of-vikings-christian-history-interview.html) Thanks Si Amigo for that links. Thanks you all. What occurred to me while reading these posts probably obvious. Proselytizing monks/priest would have lived near or among the target group they were converting for years, all the while learning their language and customs (possibly even partaking in their festivals to get to know them better) and developing relationships with them. It’s much easier to win someone over to your beliefs if you can tailor your beliefs to suit those of your target. I imagine that they portrayed Jesus as a warrior god/martial god/sword-wielding god much like their own but having suffered for mankind like no other god and come out victorious. I have no idea. I do hope to find some actual accounts of sermons given by monks. So far I haven’t. Naturally, anti-pagan laws, forced conversions, trading laws/customs and the structure of the prevailing feudal system underpinned by one God, would have all worked in favor of Christianizing the pagans much faster. And hold-outs would not have lasted very long, except in very remote regions of Europe. If anyone can recommend any books on the subject I’d appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/30 "2017-05-27T16:24:06Z")
For a fictional account from an author who seems to have immersed herself in the cultures of the time, _Hild_ by Nicola Griffith, who imagines the childhood of St Hilda of Whitby. Wikipedia: “The source of information about Hilda is the Ecclesiastical History of the English People by Bede in 731, who was born approximately eight years before her death. He documented much of the Christian conversion of the Anglo-Saxons.” ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/31 "2017-05-27T23:55:46Z")
> [@susan](#): > > For a fictional account from an author who seems to have immersed herself in the cultures of the time, _Hild_ by Nicola Griffith, who imagines the childhood of St Hilda of Whitby. > > Wikipedia: “The source of information about Hilda is the Ecclesiastical History of the English People by Bede in 731, who was born approximately eight years before her death. He documented much of the Christian conversion of the Anglo-Saxons.” Thanks Susan. I’ll take a look at Nicola Griffith’s book. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412/32 "2017-05-28T02:05:11Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I remember one particular saint (I regretfully forget his name) whose tactics were to go out to the Germanic pagans’ holy groves under heavy escort, take an axe to their holy trees and essentially go “WELL ?! Am I smitten ? No ? WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW ?!” I remember that tale being associated with a fella named St. Boniface. [ > [@](#): > > According to the vitae Boniface felled the Donar Oak, Latinized by Willibald as “Jupiter’s oak,” near the present-day town of Fritzlar in northern Hesse. According to his early biographer Willibald, Boniface started to chop the oak down, when suddenly a great wind, as if by miracle, blew the ancient oak over. When the god did not strike him down, the people were amazed and converted to Christianity. ]([Saint Boniface - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Boniface#Early_missionary_work_in_Frisia_and_Germania)) [Homer Simpson voice]And that’s the story of where Christmas trees come from.[/HSV] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-fourth-or-fifth-century-priests-approach-pagans-to-convert-them-what-were-their-tactics/787412.md?page=1)