# How did Gandalf plan on getting into Mordor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793 "2010-01-28T18:49:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/61 "2010-01-29T17:50:29Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [I saw that!](http://www.solargeneral.com/library/bored-of-the-rings.rtf) Sure, it was the other mountain, but it seemed to fit this thread. Esp with **carneeveeplantir** joining in. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/62 "2010-01-29T18:14:28Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Esp with **carneeveeplantir** joining in. Yeah, Skald lets _anybody_ in here… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/63 "2010-01-29T19:00:11Z")
> [@Stormcrow](#): > > To answer the question seriously - it’s never answered specifically in the books - I think Gandalf thought there was a good chance the doors would be standing open. He mentions that they normally were left open. Failing that, he figured he knew just about every kind of opening spell there was and that it shouldn’t prove much of a challenge. On that count he was mistaken, but mostly due to his expecting it to be _more_ challenging than it actually was. Speak “Enemy” and open. “I got a pizza delivery.” “We didn’t order no pizza.” “It’s got extra long pig on it.” “Lemme just open the door…” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/64 "2010-01-29T19:12:19Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > Speak “Enemy” and open. > > “I got a pizza delivery.” > “We didn’t order no pizza.” > “It’s got extra long pig on it.” > “Lemme just open the door…” See, that’s why Boogies carry Lugers. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/65 "2010-01-29T19:13:06Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > Umm… Elrond, Gil-glad’s second in command? When Eregion was invaded in 1695 SA, Gil-galad sent a relief army under his top commander (Elrond) to their aid. They were too few and too late. After being driven off, Elrond established a fortress/refuge east along the dwarf road to keep an army on Sauron’s flanks and to keep a line of communication open across the Misty Mountains. This refuge was known as Imladris/Rivendell. > > Over 1700 years later Rivendell was the command headquarters of the Last Alliance; both Gil-galad and Elendil lived in Rivendell as they directed the first few years of that great war. And when they marched out to besiege Mordor Elrond went as the equivalent of Gil-galad’s Aide-de-camp. For seven years, Elrond was one of the chief commanders of the army in and around Mordor. I would expect him to be as close to an expert as you would likely find on Mordor and its environs, much in the way General U.S. Grant’s Aide-de-camp John Rawlins would have been a pretty good resource on Petersburg, Virginia. > > And Gandalf spent late October to late December 3018 TA sitting in Rivendell discussing the ring, the war, and how to achieve their goals. I’m sure Elrond would have given him every piece of information he had. Ah, sorry, I think of Elrond not as a commander, but as a sub-altern, standing at the side of the great Gil-Galad, shining his spear. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/66 "2010-01-29T19:15:58Z")
> [@Stormcrow](#): > > To answer the question seriously - it’s never answered specifically in the books - I think Gandalf thought there was a good chance the doors would be standing open. He mentions that they normally were left open. Failing that, he figured he knew just about every kind of opening spell there was and that it shouldn’t prove much of a challenge. On that count he was mistaken, but mostly due to his expecting it to be _more_ challenging than it actually was. Underlining added for clarity of post: Are you sure you are not conflating the doors of Moria with the gates of Mordor? Question for the masses: just why do you think Cirith Ungol existed? I mean, there was a perfectly good pass right below it, with a road over it and everything. Why would someone bother to etch a set of stair-steps into the side of the pass, just so they could end up in Torech Ungol??? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/67 "2010-01-29T19:45:28Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Ah, sorry, I think of Elrond not as a commander, but as a sub-altern, standing at the side of the great Gil-Galad, shining his spear. 😃 Hey, Elrond (son of Aaron Dill, or something like that 😉 ) was the sole legitimate claimant to the kingship of the Noldor in exile, after the fall of Gil-Galad. Also, king of the Sindar, come to think of it, on his mother’s side. Leader of the House of Beor, too. And houses of Hador and Haleth too, I suppose. He fought not just at the Last Alliance, but also at the Break of Thangorodrim, during the War of Wrath. His old man took out Ancalagon the Black at that time! Dude got around. ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/68 "2010-01-29T20:24:23Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > Speak “Enemy” and open. > > “I got a pizza delivery.” > “We didn’t order no pizza.” > “It’s got extra long pig on it.” > “Lemme just open the door…” “Landshark.” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/69 "2010-01-29T21:07:24Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Underlining added for clarity of post: > > Are you sure you are not conflating the doors of Moria with the gates of Mordor? > Question for the masses: just why do you think Cirith Ungol existed? I mean, there was a perfectly good pass right below it, with a road over it and everything. Why would someone bother to etch a set of stair-steps into the side of the pass, just so they could end up in Torech Ungol??? :eek: Maybe there was a watch post way up there on the cliff side. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/70 "2010-01-29T21:39:08Z")
I have a hard time believing that Gandalf could slip into Mordor unnoticed and get all the way to Mount Doom. Or that he’d willingly take Isildur’s Heir along for the ride. I don’t think he intended for the entire group to get beyond Lothlorien. ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/71 "2010-01-29T21:57:39Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Question for the masses: just why do you think Cirith Ungol existed? I mean, there was a perfectly good pass right below it, with a road over it and everything. Why would someone bother to etch a set of stair-steps into the side of the pass, just so they could end up in Torech Ungol??? :eek: Going from dim memory here - the orginal purpose of those fortresses was to keep Sauron and/or his minions in, right? They may even predate that. And in those days the “nice” side of the mountains there was not that bad of a place to be. So the stair probably dates to some previous time when the area was not the blighted mess it is by LoTR. Keep in mind also that Gollum knows a secret way - the stairs in the books are clearly hidden/less obvious than they are in the movies; the whole area is full of ruins and one more random staircase wouldn’t seem like any more of a security risk than any other. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/72 "2010-01-29T22:21:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You know, that’s an excellent point : I remember Gandalf saying something along the lines of Gollum “still having his part to play” as a reason why he didn’t simply off him instead of leaving him with the elves. Maybe he expected Gollum would wind up finding the Fellowship down the line (drawn to the Ring and all that), at which point he could have done what Frodo and Sam did : make him lead the way. Better do it this way than lug him all the way from Rivendell and give him Eru knows how many opportunities to screw them over. Or, Gandalf figured Gollum would rat out Sauron to the Federal Prosecutors in exchange for a lighter sentence, either way.😃 ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/73 "2010-01-29T23:37:17Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Aragorn specifically says that he did not think Gandalf had a specific plan after Lorien. This may seem foolish, but I think it was the right approach; he had to see the situation on the ground to make a judgment, and would not wish to commit himself emotionally to a strategem that would prove unwise, or get target fixation. > > Also bear in mind that it was never meant for all nine to go all the way to Mordor. Had Gandalf lived to make it through Lorien, I think he would have taken Frodo, himself, and Gimli into Moria, while Aragorn and the rest went to Minas Tirith. Why oh why would he go back to Moria, when he didn’t want to go in there the first place? Did he want to hide there for the rest of the Ring-War?😕 ;)😃 ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/74 "2010-01-29T23:46:56Z")
What was stopping Gandalf, Radagast and everyone else from charging in on the giant eagles. Imagine - flying over the mountains - then diving down to the volcano’s opening and dropping in the ring (optionally with hobbit attached). The whole operation would be over quick enough. The eagles are willing to help (as per the War of the 5 Armies, their rescue of Gandalf from the tower). They showed they were able to get to Mt. Doom when they rescued Frodo/Sam right after the deed was done. How could Sauron have stopped them. Granted, the flying Nazgul would be a potential problem - but the eagles outnumbered them and could have heroes like Gandalf and Legolas shooting long range projectiles. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/75 "2010-01-29T23:52:27Z")
Damn. Never thought of that before. _throws LotR on the fire_ ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/76 "2010-01-30T00:17:10Z")
Malacandra - Does this mean we have to discuss Harry Potter endlessly from now on instead? ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/77 "2010-01-30T00:24:22Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > What was stopping Gandalf, Radagast and everyone else from charging in on the giant eagles. > > Imagine - flying over the mountains - then diving down to the volcano’s opening and dropping in the ring (optionally with hobbit attached). The whole operation would be over quick enough. > > The eagles are willing to help (as per the War of the 5 Armies, their rescue of Gandalf from the tower). They showed they were able to get to Mt. Doom when they rescued Frodo/Sam right after the deed was done. How could Sauron have stopped them. Granted, the flying Nazgul would be a potential problem - but the eagles outnumbered them and could have heroes like Gandalf and Legolas shooting long range projectiles. [Obligatory Whitest Kids U Know link.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRcMVMeXPQ4) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/78 "2010-01-30T00:39:26Z")
I understand that Gandalf was one lucky SOB and everything worked out all right, and I know that this has been discussed umpteenth times before, but I still think it was stupid to bring Merry and Pippin along instead of someone like Glorfindel. The only reason they state is that “since it’s impossible to get into Mordor anyway, what’s the point of taking someone like Glorfindel instead of a couple more hobbits.” What? How does that make sense? Glorfindel sure would have been more useful in Moria than Pippin. For one thing he wouldn’t have been dumb enough to start throwing rocks into deep holes and waking up Balrogs. Come on! Glorfindel can make Nazgul wet their pants and run away! This is a guy you want to take with you. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/79 "2010-01-30T00:58:57Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I understand that Gandalf was one lucky SOB and everything worked out all right, and I know that this has been discussed umpteenth times before, but I still think it was stupid to bring Merry and Pippin along instead of someone like Glorfindel. The only reason they state is that “since it’s impossible to get into Mordor anyway, what’s the point of taking someone like Glorfindel instead of a couple more hobbits.” What? How does that make sense? Glorfindel sure would have been more useful in Moria than Pippin. For one thing he wouldn’t have been dumb enough to start throwing rocks into deep holes and waking up Balrogs. Come on! Glorfindel can make Nazgul wet their pants and run away! This is a guy you want to take with you. Yeah but the whole point was that Valar and elves and humans and wizards had been fighting heroically forever and while overall maybe the forces of darkness had been whittled down 90%, the good guys had been whittled down 95%. By the time of LotR it was like the sixteenth round of a boxing match and the defender has nothing left while the challenger has just enough to win the fight. What the Ring trilogy and the Hobbit are about is Gandalf’s idea that these little unassuming people may in their own way have quiet strengths no one had reckoned on. They were an untapped resource. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793/80 "2010-01-30T01:11:08Z")
also regarding the eagles [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1yqVD0swvWU/maxresdefault.jpg "How Lord of The Rings Should Have Ended") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-gandalf-plan-on-getting-into-mordor/526793.md?page=5)