If only there were a way Gandalf could become invisible and then get all the way to Mount Doom. If only there were some kind of magical talisman…
I like the eagles as carrier pigeons–we would have had a much different story, but who’s to say it wouldn’t have been a better one? 
Oh eleanorigby I know you must be joking. Long before Gandalf got invisibly to Mordor he would have challenged Sauron as Lord of the Ring.
as for the eagles -
they don’t like to get directly involved.
long, long flight from Rivendell carrying a passenger w/ ring
eagles might have been tempted by ring.
entry to Crack of Doom tricksy for big eagle
Sauron would have espied eagle & shot him down
etc.
If Gandalf doesn’t bring Peregrin Took along, Faramir dies, and possibly Minas Tirith ends up in some serious trouble.
If Gandalf doesn’t bring Meridoc Brandybuck along, the Witchking kills Eowyn, mops up the battlefield, and says some uncomplimentary things to Aragorn about what he intends to do with Eowyn when he gets his chance.
The hobbits HAD to come along; it was fate/karma/Providence.
You mean after she’s dead? Those Nazgul are worse than I thought. :eek:
Sure, we can assume all that, but then again I could reply with:
If Glorfindel goes, he puts some magical elvish sword through the Witch King as soon as the Witch King pops his head through the broken front door of Minas Tirith, and the tide of battle turns earlier, and Theoden doesn’t get killed.
If Pippin doesn’t go, then the palantir of Orthanc falls into a hole, Aragorn can’t use it to challenge Sauron, Sauron waits a few more days to march into battle against Minas Tirith, Rohan has time to arrive before the battle starts, help Faramir escape from Osgiliath, and Faramir doesn’t get wounded.
I know Merry and Pippin did something worthwhile, and if they’re not part of The Company it’s not the story that Tolkien wanted to tell, but if I were Gandalf I would have told Tolkien to cram it and brought Glorfindel along anyway.
No, Thomas Covenant.
agreed. all the hobbits played their parts. The hobbits are what made this story special.
I think the deal is that when you wear the ring you become visible to Sauron.
I also seem to remember that Gandalf would have been tempted had he worn the ring.
I agree that Gandalf was mostly hoping for the best, looking to exploit opportunities as they arose. I don’t think he had the entire quest planned out when the Fellowship departed Rivendell (on Dec. 25, incidentally), since he knew the tactical situation was fluid, to say the least.
Gollum didn’t escape from Mordor, as such; Sauron released him on purpose, IIRC, knowing he would seek out B. Baggins, Esq.
Elrond was Gil-Galad’s herald. Exactly what that role entailed is unclear - probably a mix of advisor, military ADC, liaison to Elendil and the Numenoreans, and diplomat to any other folk encountered along the way.
I posted this in an earlier thread, but I can’t say it any better than I did then.
One of the major themes of LOTR is that the days of the Elves are ending and the world is transitioning to becoming a world of Men. Sauron is the last enemy of the old world and if Men (read=Humans) are going to be deemed worthy of inheriting the world then they need to stand up and defeat this enemy on their own. Hobbits are basically Men, but so unambitious that they never really contributed much to the world (their greatest claim to fame is coming up with the idea of smoking the tobacco-like Pipeweed). There’s actually a running gag in the books that while some of the world had heard of Hobbits, none had any tales or songs of them. Since the Ring(s) basically amplifies the nature of the user, Hobbits are uniquely suited in that they have no ambition for the Ring to corrupt. The Eagles, as direct links to the Valar, could not help since it would defeat the entire purpose of letting Men earn their dominion. Them coming to rescue the Hobbits at the climax can be looked at as divine acknowledgment of their success.
Shelob’s mommy, Ungoliant personally kicked Morgoth’s ass. Had Gandalf known Shelob’s exact nature and origin, he might not have attempted the pass. As it was, she was a paper spider and Sam Gamgee squished her.
It’s not only that, but I don’t think the eagles could have got in, what with the Nazgul and Sauron being able to focus fully upon them. It’s pretty clear to me the only reason the eagles got far enough in to rescue Frodo is that Sauron and the remaining 8 Nazgul were fully focused upon Frodo.
But sending - and resurrecting - an Ainur doesn’t qualify as outside help? If an Ainur, why not the eagles?
…if you want a giant white arrow labelled “Here they are!” pointing at the Fellowship every inch from Rivendell to Mount Doom. The Council were quite clear that Glorfindel, mighty as he was, couldn’t blast his way in by might and main, and he would ruin all hope of subterfuge.
And yes, Gandalf not only couldn’t have crept into Mordor wearing the Ring - Sauron nearly spotted Frodo as far away as Amon Hen - but would have been irresistibly tempted to use the Ring for good, just once.
And again.
And again.
And again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…
He could almost certainly have overthrown Sauron, but Middle-Earth would have had a new Ringlord with even less likelihood that he could be overthrown in his turn.
She did not die. Also, Sting was no ordinary sword, and Sam got lucky.
If Aragorn doesn’t challenge Sauron, Sauron doesn’t fly into a panic and kick off a premature offensive. Instead, he sits tight and keeps the entire Gorgoroth teeming with Orcs and the border guard unweakened, with the result that the watchforce at Cirith Ungol reports the presence of two spies. And would you just look at what one of them keeps in his pocketses.
But Gandalf didn’t just swoop in and solve the problem by himself as an ultrapowerful badass Ainur. He did what he had done before – inspire, cajole, organize, and point the right people in the right direction – just with more personal power at his disposal.
On a side note, try saying ‘personal power at his disposal’ 5 times fast without showering the people sitting across from you.
The Eagles only got involved at the extreme end and only acted to save the Ringbearers after they had Done Their Thing, which is as far as Divine Will would go to affect events without overriding free will. The Eagles are messengers of the gods, not a divine Delta Force.
He was sent in an “advisory capacity.” Kind of like when you are teaching your kid to ride a bike without training wheels for the first time. You hold him steady and then when it’s time, you let go.
As has been mentioned, Gandalf and the other wizards were specifically forbidden from using their powers to help. They were sent in human form (but unaging) to limit their power and also so they could easier relate to the inhabitants of Middle-earth. Gandalf’s primary purpose was to inspire men to reach their potential. This is illustrated best in his help of Theoden (who wasn’t possessed in the books like he was in the movies) among others. Gandalf carries a staff, like a shepherd, in a bit of obvious symbolism. Even his Ring of Power was the Red Ring of Fire, to “fire up the hearts of Men.” Gandalf was the only wizard that kept to the mission, though. Saruman became enamored with power, Radagast went “native” and only cared about the animals. The other two wizards went into the East and were never heard from again. Tolkien assumed they were either killed or started up cults of their own outside the reckoning of the West. LOTR is almost Biblical in its focus on a relatively narrow part of the World.
Wikipedia actually has a good paragraph about it in the Wizards page.
“Though the Valar intervened only rarely in Middle-earth, they sent the wizards as emissaries from Valinor because they had not forsaken the faithful Men and Elves of Middle-earth. In imposing the prohibition against using force to compel the Children of Eru, the Valar sought with the wizards to avoid repeating an ancient error. They had tried direct intervention in the destiny of the Elves in the Years of the Trees by leading the Eldar into the West, but this resulted in many bloody wars and confrontations. In the struggle against the Dark Lord, they hoped instead to help Men achieve their own destiny. Thus Gandalf and the other wizards were meant to use their great wisdom to persuade Men to courses of action which would achieve Men’s own goals, rather than trying to dominate them. Saruman failed in this when he tried to set himself up as a commander in opposition to Sauron, but Gandalf remained faithful to his charge.”
Dead simple. Walk up to the front gates, approach the Orcs guarding the show and make a mysterious hand pass, saying “These are not the hobbits you are looking for”. Orc replies “These are not the hobbits we are looking for”, and moves on.
Lather, rinse, repeat all the way through Mordor and within a couple of days they’re all sitting around the pool at the Mt Doom Hilton wearing Bermuda shorts and shades, drinking cocktails out of coconuts, poking random Balrog corpses with a stick and mooning The Eye for shits and giggles.
Gandalf getting his dopey ass killed kinda put a hole in the plan, but. Had to do it the hard way after that.
Not the point. Gandalf did chastise Frodo about wanting to kill Gollum, explaining that this is not how the free world rolls (“PITY ? It was pity that stayed Bilbo’s sword in the first place !”). But he also mused that, on top of the mercy angle, he felt that Gollum still had a part to play, and that’s significant.
“It’s a pity I’ve run out of bullets.”