# How did George Lucas land Alec Guiness for the first "Star Wars"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 20, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759 "2007-06-20T19:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/1 "2007-06-20T19:58:56Z")
Lucas had _American Graffiti_ and some other even less well-known movies to his name, but was probably not well-known in the UK. Guiness was a very well-known British actor with a long and distinguished career. A bit past his prime in the mid-1970s, I suppose, but still out of Lucas’s league. Or not? Was it all about the money? The chance to try his hand at science fiction? Did Guiness have any inkling as to what a huge hit _Star Wars_ would become? Does anyone know the behind-the-scenes story of how Guiness was wooed and landed for the iconic role of Obi-Wan Kenobi? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/2 "2007-06-20T20:19:00Z")
I don’t think it was much more than that he needed the money and thought the filmwould be successful. That’s also why he negotiated (and got) backend points. And, btw, Guiness hated the role and the film. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/3 "2007-06-20T20:21:20Z")
According to Wikipedia, Guinness took the role on the condition that he wouldn’t have to do any publicity to promote the film. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/4 "2007-06-20T20:26:08Z")
As I heard it, Guiness was around, having just completed **Murder by Death** , and Star Wars was something he could do pretty quickly and easily. I’m sure he was the “prestige” name that helped sell the product, one of the few Big Names in a cast of Relative Unknowns (although James Earl Jones and Peter Cushing were in there, too), like Walter Pigeon was for **Forbidden Planet**. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/5 "2007-06-20T20:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] I’m sure he was the “prestige” name that helped sell the product, one of the few Big Names in a cast of Relative Unknowns (although James Earl Jones and Peter Cushing were in there, too), like Walter Pigeon was for **Forbidden Planet**. [/QUOTE] Although James Earl Jones wasn’t even listed in the credits. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/6 "2007-06-20T20:37:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Although James Earl Jones wasn’t even listed in the credits. Yes, he was – his name was listed in the closing credits. He didn’t pull a Bill Murray (“Tootsie”) or a Darren mcGavin (}The Natural") and not let his name be listed. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/7 "2007-06-20T20:42:12Z")
I heard it was Alec Guiness who convinced Lucas to kill off his character so it would be more powerful and meaningful, but the truth was Guiness couldn’t bear speaking anymore of Lucas’ cheesy dialogue. Spoil sport, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/8 "2007-06-20T20:44:18Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] I heard it was Alec Guiness who convinced Lucas to kill off his character so it would be more powerful and meaningful, but the truth was Guiness couldn’t bear speaking anymore of Lucas’ cheesy dialogue. Spoil sport, if you ask me. [/QUOTE] Didn’t work out too well for him, either, since he still showed up in the next two movies. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/9 "2007-06-20T20:45:19Z")
Okay, I just checked the Star Wars trivia page at iMDB and found this: > [@](#): > > James Earl Jones supplied the voice of Darth Vader, but specifically requested that he not be credited. At the time, the reason he cited was that he felt he had not done enough work to get the billing, but he later admitted that he didn’t want his name associated with the film because he was still an up-and-coming actor, and didn’t want to be typecast. Jones does receive billing in the 1997 “Special Edition”. David Prowse was reportedly very annoyed at not being told that his voice would be dubbed. But I swear that I saw a credit for Jones in the first showing of Star Wars. And he wasn’t an “up and coming” actor – he was well-known in 1977, having starred in the acclaimed **The Great White Hope** _seven years_ earlier, and having acted in movies since 1963. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/10 "2007-06-20T20:48:35Z")
In one of the few interviews I’ve ever read where Guinness referred to the role (I can’t provide a cite but I swear I read it), Guinness said that he had just read of John Carradine, an actor he admired on stage, accepting the lead in [Vampire Hookers](http://imdb.com/title/tt0080080/) (a movie that was released in 1978 but sat on the shelf for a couple of years and so is pre STAR WARS). With British taxes being terrible, stage work paying very little compared to film, and his last few films either having been the lead in low budget vehicles (_Hitler: the Last Ten Days_= a movie I liked but critics didn’t) or supporting roles in big budget films (_Murder by Death_, _Scrooge_) or big roles in box office bombs (including the notoriously disastrous _Cromwell_) he was very much afraid of not being able to retire in comfort. So, money. Lucas wanted Guinness because he (as well as his mentor/former employer Francis Ford Coppola) was a huge fan of _Bridge on the River Kwai_ and most of Guinness’s other David Lean collaborations. (Lean is admired by filmgoers of course but he seems to be nothing short of a god to filmmakers.) Plus, the rest of the cast (minus Cushing, who had already started doing low budget horror flicks) was mostly unknown (Harrison Ford had lots of credits but he was still doing cabinet work even after _Graffiti_ for extra cash), so an Oscar winning British knight was a great link to legitimacy. I think what pissed Guinness off the most was that his contract required him to do the sequels. He was notoriously bitchy on the set of _Empire Strikes Back_ (“I hate that line. Make the green puppet thing say it!”) and seemed like a real ass in interviews when his most famous role and lucrative role (one that I’m guessing paid him several times what all of his David Lean roles together paid him) was brought up, which I never understood. My favorite memory of Guinness was when he was on David Letterman in the early 1990s to promote his autobiography. He was coming across as pompous and became moreso when Letterman asked “Can you give the audience something they will always remember and say the line?” The audience went absolutely wild with applause and cheering and Guinness shook his head, but when Letterman would not let up he finally gave him an “eat shit and die” look (as if Letterman had asked him to _I Got You Babe_ with Sonny Bono) but finally he said, very resignedly, “May the Force Be With You”. The audience of course gave one of the most explosive cheering ovations in its history, Sir Alec clearly was not appreciative or amused, and when they quieted down Letterman responded: “Yeah, thanks for that Alex, but that wasn’t the line I was talking about. I meant the one from _Hitler the Last Ten Days_…” It was, if only to me, Letterman’s finest moment, and the only time I ever heard Guinness say that line outside of the movies. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/11 "2007-06-20T21:04:29Z")
I don’t think Harrison Ford is too fond of the Star Wars films either. He seems to distance himself from them and never really had anything good to say about them besides how “suprised” he was at their success. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/12 "2007-06-20T21:15:14Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I think what pissed Guinness off the most was that his contract required him to do the sequels. He was notoriously bitchy on the set of _Empire Strikes Back_ (“I hate that line. Make the green puppet thing say it!”) and seemed like a real ass in interviews when his most famous role and lucrative role (one that I’m guessing paid him several times what all of his David Lean roles together paid him) was brought up, which I never understood. [/QUOTE] I think his general attitude was “I’m Alec Guiness. I’ve done Shakespearean theater with Gielgud and Olivier. I’m one of the most prestigeous British theater actors of my generation. I’m probably the most famous British theater character actors, ever. I’ve been in all sorts of classic, deservedly famous films. I was in Kind Hearts and Coronets, where I played 8 seperate roles. I was in the Bridge on the River Kwai. I won an Oscar for that, even. I was in Lawrence of Arabia, Doctor Zhivago. But nobody remembers any of that. All I’m known for…all I’ll be remembered for, is a bit part in a piece of crap movie that I took because I needed the cash.” ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/13 "2007-06-20T21:45:58Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] And, btw, Guiness hated the role and the film. [/QUOTE] I’d like a cite for this, because my understanding was that he didn’t hate either at first, but he did come to hate the enormous success they had because they threatened to, as Captain Amazing so adroitly put it, diminish his entire career to a single not-all-that-distinguished part. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/14 "2007-06-20T21:49:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] It was, if only to me, Letterman’s finest moment, and the only time I ever heard Guinness say that line outside of the movies. [/QUOTE] If your anecdote is true, than “Letterman’s finest moment” certainly makes him sound like a grade-A jerkoff. “Hmmm, acting legend who rarely does interviews agrees to be on my show. I know! Why don’t I badger him mercilessly to do the one thing everybody knows he absolutely hates! Would could possibly be more respectful than that?” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/15 "2007-06-20T22:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] But I swear that I saw a credit for Jones in the first showing of Star Wars. And he wasn’t an “up and coming” actor – he was well-known in 1977, having starred in the acclaimed **The Great White Hope** _seven years_ earlier, and having acted in movies since 1963. [/QUOTE] Let me guess, you also saw the opening crawl say “Episode IV: A New Hope” the first time around. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/16 "2007-06-20T22:24:18Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] I’d like a cite for this, because my understanding was that he didn’t hate either at first, but he did come to hate the enormous success they had because they threatened to, as Captain Amazing so adroitly put it, diminish his entire career to a single not-all-that-distinguished part. [/QUOTE] Supposedly, when the locals thought George was a nut, Guiness defended him and predicted that he’d probably become quite the success someday. As for asking Obi-Wan to be killed off, another version I heard is that Lucas decided to kill him off because he really didn’t have anything to do the rest of the film. And when Guiness first heard about it, he was seriously _pissed_. I think it was Harrison Ford who wanted Han to be killed off in the second film. In an interview with Mark Hamill, he said that Guiness was a perfect gentlemen. At one point, when Hamill kept calling him “Sir Alec”, Guiness slapped him lightly on the face and said, “My dear boy, I wish to be known by my name, not my accolade.” I’m guessing that it was only later on, as he became known only as “Obi-Wan”, that he began to hate the films. However, I don’t think he was the charmer that Peter Cushing was said to be. I’ve heard that in complete contrast to his character, Cushing was a total sweetheart in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/17 "2007-06-20T22:34:41Z")
[QUOTE=Terminus Est] Let me guess, you also saw the opening crawl say “Episode IV: A New Hope” the first time around. 😉 [/QUOTE] Didn’t it? I know that the movie itself wasn’t called “Star Wars Episode IV : A New Hope” until the Phanom Menace was released (I HATE the fact that they changed the name, BTW), but I seem to recall the opening crawl headlined with that phrase, at least on the original 1980s video release… Joe ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/18 "2007-06-20T22:47:29Z")
[QUOTE=wheresgeorge04] Didn’t it? I know that the movie itself wasn’t called “Star Wars Episode IV : A New Hope” until the Phanom Menace was released (I HATE the fact that they changed the name, BTW), but I seem to recall the opening crawl headlined with that phrase, at least on the original 1980s video release… Joe [/QUOTE] Straight from the horse’s mouth: [Episode IV: What Has Changed?](http://www.starwars.com/episode-iv/release/video/f20060825/index.html) [see slide #3] > [@](#): > > The original 1977 theatrical crawl did not begin with an Episode title or number; these were added in the 1981 theatrical re-release. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/19 "2007-06-20T22:49:32Z")
[QUOTE=wheresgeorge04] Didn’t it? I know that the movie itself wasn’t called “Star Wars Episode IV : A New Hope” until the Phanom Menace was released (I HATE the fact that they changed the name, BTW), but I seem to recall the opening crawl headlined with that phrase, at least on the original 1980s video release… Joe [/QUOTE] Fuck no - it was called…‘Star Wars’ Sorry to everyone who knows this. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/20 "2007-06-21T01:12:50Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] “Hmmm, acting legend who rarely does interviews agrees to be on my show. I know! Why don’t I badger him mercilessly to do the one thing everybody knows he absolutely hates! Would could possibly be more respectful than that?” :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] OR “Arrogant man who earned millions & millions of dollars for a few months work in a completely unessential profession where most people cannot make a living regardless of whether or not they are talented acts like an aristocratic put-out snot regarding the role and the people who made him spectacularly wealthy in his old age and has his stuffed shirt punctured”. Potato, potahto. As for being remembered only for Obi Wan, 1- That’s not true- his David Lean films and his comedies especially are still well regarded, sell well on DVD, and still watched 2- For those who don’t know him from his classic films, what are the chances they’d have remembered him at all had it not been for Obi Wan? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759.md?page=2)