# How did George Lucas land Alec Guiness for the first "Star Wars"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 20, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759 "2007-06-20T19:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/21 "2007-06-21T03:20:55Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] But I swear that I saw a credit for Jones in the first showing of Star Wars. And he wasn’t an “up and coming” actor – he was well-known in 1977, having starred in the acclaimed **The Great White Hope** _seven years_ earlier, and having acted in movies since 1963. [/QUOTE] No, I didn’t see his name in the credits at all when the film first came out and Jones was too well known to be overlooked (he got an Oscar nomination for **The Great White Hope** and was considered – well, the equivalent of Alec Guiness among Black actors of the time). ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/22 "2007-06-21T04:37:35Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] I don’t think Harrison Ford is too fond of the Star Wars films either. He seems to distance himself from them and never really had anything good to say about them besides how “suprised” he was at their success. [/QUOTE] That just seems to be the kind of guy Ford is. From what I’ve seen, he speaks fondly of his co-stars and seemed to have a good time making the films (except perhaps by Jedi, where his performance is noticeably lazy). He’s forthright about their shortcomings, but I think he just tends to not be a bullshitter about that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/23 "2007-06-21T04:45:53Z")
Regarding James Earl Jones, from what I’ve heard he asked not to be included in the credits because he felt he didn’t contribute very much. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/24 "2007-06-21T05:04:00Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] I think his general attitude was “I’m Alec Guiness. I’ve done Shakespearean theater with Gielgud and Olivier. I’m one of the most prestigeous British theater actors of my generation. I’m probably the most famous British theater character actors, ever. I’ve been in all sorts of classic, deservedly famous films. I was in Kind Hearts and Coronets, where I played 8 seperate roles. I was in the Bridge on the River Kwai. I won an Oscar for that, even. I was in Lawrence of Arabia, Doctor Zhivago. But nobody remembers any of that. All I’m known for…all I’ll be remembered for, is a bit part in a piece of crap movie that I took because I needed the cash.” [/QUOTE] Makes you wonder if he and Pica- errr, Patrick Stewart ever got hammered together after Star Trek: TNG took off. “Look at us! Two fine Shakespearean actors, reduced to trite, shallow _pop culture_ characters in the world’s eye. Star Wars was a bloody joke.” “Hear hear! Another round!” “I played the lead in Romeo and Juliet, for god’s sake.” “Antony and Cleopatra!” “The Tempest! Henry V!” “Hamlet!” “And then, and then…_classy_ movies. Real works of art. Bridge Over The River Kwai!” “Excalibur!” “Doctor Zhivago!” “Dune!” “…” “What? I’ll have you know Gurney Halleck was quite hardcore.” “Screw off, Pat.” ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/25 "2007-06-21T05:30:52Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Supposedly, when the locals thought George was a nut, Guiness defended him and predicted that he’d probably become quite the success someday. … In an interview with Mark Hamill, he said that Guiness was a perfect gentlemen. At one point, when Hamill kept calling him “Sir Alec”, Guiness slapped him lightly on the face and said, “My dear boy, I wish to be known by my name, not my accolade.” I’m guessing that it was only later on, as he became known only as “Obi-Wan”, that he began to hate the films. [/QUOTE] I think the stories about Guinness’ “hate” for the Star Wars movies are something that’s gotten more exaggerated over time. I think what he actually hated were the annoying Star Wars uber-geeks who would rudely bother him when he was trying to mind his own business. One thing you have to remember about **Star Wars** is that _nobody_ thought it would become the highest grossest movie of all time–not the actors, not 20th Century Fox, and not even George Lucas who, at best, expected it to do as well as the typical Disney picture (i.e., around $20 million). Guinness saw the movie as a diverting trifle and a chance to work with a talented young up-and-coming director so he took the part as a bit of a lark (hey, it was better than having to do **Vampire Hookers** ). The fact it and its sequels became a cultural phenomenon and the basis of a quasi-religion for some people was something that greatly bemused him (and likely led to few Shatneresque “GET A LIFE, will you people!” incidents). ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/26 "2007-06-21T07:14:20Z")
I’m sure Guinness saw the practical upshot of all of it, namely that the film’s success introduced him to an entirely new generation of movie goers who would **never** have seen his earlier work. Hell, I’m no Star Wars geek but other than Bridge on the River Kwai I’ve never seen or even heard of any of those other films of his! I saw and remember his Letterman appearance well. He wasn’t too disgruntled. He never made Letterman’s _Mad as Hell_ rerun specials (i.e. Shirley McClain, Oliver Reed, Nastasia Kinski etc.) And I think Dave really amused Guinness with his great, “That wasn’t the line I meant” comeback. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/27 "2007-06-21T07:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] Makes you wonder if he and Pica- errr, Patrick Stewart ever got hammered together after Star Trek: TNG took off. [/QUOTE] Actually, Stewart loves the fame (and moreso the fortune) ST:TNG brought him. He said he found the work more challenging in those BBC miniseries and theater, but also said something to the effect of “I made more for a day of taping TREK than I made in six months on the stage- when it’s over I can do what I want”. Same with Ian McKellan, who once called himself the oldest and longest career of any overnight sensation in the business (not that he lacked for work or prestige, but it wasn’t until he was almost 60 that he was thought of for blockbusters, though he claims to have turned down Harry Potter when Harris died because he was sick of wearing robes and beards). ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/28 "2007-06-21T08:00:35Z")
I have no clue but I’m subscribing to this thread. I will become more powerful than ever before! ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/29 "2007-06-21T09:20:12Z")
Hmmm, so James Earl Jones didn’t want to be typecast as someone with a sonorous baritone voice, too late! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/30 "2007-06-21T11:50:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Actually, Stewart loves the fame (and moreso the fortune) ST:TNG brought him. [/QUOTE] Hmm. Could be. I know he’s generally been good-natured about it all, but I do recall a few years after TNG ended and he was on a couple of talk shows for other projects, he couldn’t keep from rolling his eyes whenever someone brought up Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/31 "2007-06-21T12:15:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] Hmm. Could be. I know he’s generally been good-natured about it all, but I do recall a few years after TNG ended and he was on a couple of talk shows for other projects, he couldn’t keep from rolling his eyes whenever someone brought up Star Trek. [/QUOTE] I heard him interviewed on NPR. They brought up GalaxyQuest and the character of Alexander Dane. Stewart told how Michael Dorn told him to go see it because there was a character based on him. He sympathized completely with Alan Rickmans portrayal. In fact, he remembered making long diatribes very much like Rickmans opening, “I used to be an actor…” speech. On one occasion he said he whined on the set that he used to be a London stage actor and now he was acting opposite a puddle of ooze. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/32 "2007-06-21T12:21:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Let me guess, you also saw the opening crawl say “Episode IV: A New Hope” the first time around. Nope – I’ve written about that too often on this Board. I _swear_ I saw Jones’ name on the credits, though. I’ll have to check my copy of the tape (I’ve got an old tape, way pre-CGI re-release). But I note that the iMDB entry for Star Wars doesn’t say Jones is “uncredited”, as it does for The Empire Strikes Back. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/33 "2007-06-21T13:20:59Z")
[QUOTE=Hypno-Toad] On one occasion he said he whined on the set that he used to be a London stage actor and now he was acting opposite a puddle of ooze. [/QUOTE] That’s a very mean thing to say about Wil Wheaton! He was just a child at the time. I’ve never really grasped Guinness’ attitude about Star Wars. I understand the reasoning, but not the bitterness. Maybe he was reacting to years of irritating geeks - I guess that helped suck the fun out of Star Wars for me, too - but what **Sampiro** said is right. If I hadn’t liked Guinness in Star Wars, I wouldn’t have rented Kind Hearts and Coronets and Bridge on the River Kwai, and I wouldn’t have The Ladykillers in my Netflix queue. And if he played Obi-Wan for financial security, then those back-end points made sure he got it. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/34 "2007-06-21T13:26:23Z")
His wiki page has this: > **[Alec Guinness | Star Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Guinness#Star_Wars)** > > Guinness's role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in the original Star Wars trilogy, beginning in 1977, brought him worldwide recognition to a new generation, as well as Academy Award and Golden Globe nominations. In letters to his friends, Guinness described the film as "fairy-tale rubbish" but the film's sense of moral good – and the studio's doubling of his initial salary offer – appealed to him and he agreed to take the part of Kenobi on the condition that he would not have to do any publicity to promote the... That seems to have a much smaller degree of people pulling things out of their butts than the rest of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/35 "2007-06-21T13:30:49Z")
If you’ve ever heard Dave Prowse speak, you’ll understand why they couldn’t use his voice for Darth Vader- I’m told the on-set joke was to refer to his role as “Darth Farmer”, on account of his thick Yorkshire accent. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/36 "2007-06-21T13:38:39Z")
Yorkshire? He’s from the West Country. Where they all sound like pirates. Or at least, they do this strange thing where they pronounce the R at the end of words 😉 ---
**Author:** ![snorlax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@snorlax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snorlax)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/37 "2007-06-21T13:43:25Z")
He is indeed from the West Country (Bristol): [David Prowse - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Prowse) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/38 "2007-06-21T14:17:30Z")
I have read somewhere that one of Lucas’s original choices for the role was [Toshiro Mifune](http://imdb.com/name/nm0001536/), bkf his Kurosawa samurai films and as Lord Toranaga from _Shogun_. Does anybody know the truth of this? Had that not worked he’d have gone with either Charles Nelson Reilly, Gary “Radar” Burghoff, or the studio’s choice of Redd Foxx. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/39 "2007-06-21T14:25:16Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] If you’ve ever heard Dave Prowse speak, you’ll understand why they couldn’t use his voice for Darth Vader- I’m told the on-set joke was to refer to his role as “Darth Farmer”, on account of his thick Yorkshire accent. 😃 [/QUOTE] He’s a body guard in the TV series of “The Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”, completely out of make up. There are enough lines to not take him seriously as Vader’s voice 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/40 "2007-06-21T15:40:29Z")
[QUOTE=NDP] I think the stories about Guinness’ “hate” for the Star Wars movies are something that’s gotten more exaggerated over time. I think what he actually hated were the annoying Star Wars uber-geeks who would rudely bother him when he was trying to mind his own business. [/QUOTE] [Eyegore] On the nosey! [/Eyegore] NPR played an interview with Sir Alec just after he died wherein he expressed his disgust for the fanboys who could not seem to understand that the Star Wars universe was _fictional_. He seemed rather disturbed at the sheer number of fans who approached him in public under the delusion that he actually was a Jedi Knight (he pronounced it “JED-ee”), that he carried a real lightsabre under his jacket, and that the whole “Alec Guinness” identity was some superhero-esque front to deceive the ignorant public. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759.md?page=3)