# How did George Lucas land Alec Guiness for the first "Star Wars"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 20, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759 "2007-06-20T19:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/61 "2007-06-22T13:20:24Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] When the original film was re-released in 1981, “Episode IV: A New Hope” was added above the original opening crawl. That was nearly 2 decades before “Phantom Menace” came out. [/QUOTE] And, notably, the year after _Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back_. I don’t remember, did that have “Star Wars Episode V” at the time? ---
**Author:** ![GraceTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@GraceTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraceTX)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/62 "2007-06-22T14:13:06Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Speaking of Star Wars/Letterman/James Earl Jones, the latter’s reading of the _Top 10 Things That Sound Classy When James Earl Jones Says Them_ was also a classic moment. I don’t remember them all, but among them were _Heebie Jeebies_, _Big Ass Ham_, and number one was _Oprah_. [/QUOTE] Big Ass Ham and Oprah were on the “Top 10 Things That Sound Romantic When Barry White Says Them” If James Earl Jones list was during Dave’s Oprah feud phase, she probably was included in that list as well. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/63 "2007-06-22T15:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan > When the original film was re-released in 1981, “Episode IV: A New Hope” was added above the original opening crawl. That was nearly 2 decades before “Phantom Menace” came out. > > And, notably, the year after Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. I don’t remember, did that have “Star Wars Episode V” at the time? Okay, I’m going to go out and make another statement here that will be doubted (I haven’t checked my Star Wars tape yet – I spent last night scrubbing stain off my bathroom walls) 1.) **The Empire Strikes Back** definitely DID have the “Episode V” thing above the crawl, right from its first release. IIRC, there was a sidebar in Time magazine commenting on this in the issue with Darth Vader on the cover preceding the release of Empire, since the original Star Wars didn’t have such a chapter title when it was first released.\* 2.) I thought that they added the “Episode IV” thing above the crawl for the original before Empire, but I could easily be wrong. The 1981 re-release wasn’t the first re-release — they were able to re-release the original Star Wars to major theaters when they issued the TRAILER for Empire Strikes Back. the series was so insanely popular that people willingly paid to see a movie that recent _just to be able to see the Coming Attractions for the sequel_. I’d thought they put it in for that re-release. \*Giving the impression of starting a serial _in media res_ wasn’t exactly new. I was confused as hell as a kid by a Mighty Mouse cartoon that began “…in our last episode…” and went on to detail how it was that Mighty Mouse ended up in the fix he was in. Yet i never saw any such previous episode, or subsequent episodes, for that matter. all Mighty Mouse cartoons were free-standing entities. I didn’t realize that the cartoon was poking fun at the traditions of the Movie Serials at the time. i don’t think I’d even seen such a serial at that time. (Although I did soon enough afterwards. Officer Joe Bolton and other kiddie TV show hosts started running some of the old serials, an episode per day, on their shows after that.) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/64 "2007-06-22T16:30:00Z")
[Let the record show](http://boards.theforce.net/classic_trilogy/b10002/8708417/p8): > [@](#): > > For the record, here’s what Steve Sansweet says over at the Official [SW] Site: > > Q: A friend and I have had a long-standing argument over when the opening crawl of the first Star Wars movie was changed to add “Episode IV: A New Hope.” He says it was 1978, but I think it was a couple of years later. > > A: You win. But the mind does play tricks, and this wasn’t as easy to answer as you might think. Soon after the unexpected huge success of Star Wars, George Lucas announced that it was only one part in a multi-chapter saga, and almost immediately started production on the next part, The Empire Strikes Back. But there was also a pre-story that might get made someday, he said. The first movie really started “in the middle” of the story. > > Star Wars was still playing in numerous theaters a year after its opening on May 25, 1977. It was re-released in 1979, 1981 and 1982. But when was the change made? For the indisputable answer, we went to Lucasfilm’s film archivist, Sterling Hedgpeth. Here’s what he says: > > “I found a box with all the positive elements for the ‘revised’ opening crawl, and the assorted trim boxes are dated from October through December 1980. This, then, is consistent with the view that Episode IV: A New Hope was added for the first time to the opening crawl for the April 10, 1981 re-release.” ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/65 "2007-06-22T16:37:03Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] 1.) **The Empire Strikes Back** definitely DID have the “Episode V” thing above the crawl, right from its first release. IIRC, there was a sidebar in Time magazine commenting on this in the issue with Darth Vader on the cover preceding the release of Empire, since the original Star Wars didn’t have such a chapter title when it was first released.\* [/QUOTE] I have the same recollection, right down to the sidebar in Time magazine. I have no idea about videos or theatrical rereleases, though. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/66 "2007-06-22T16:56:45Z")
[Time Article](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,924123,00.html) (not sure if you have to be a member or not, but give it a shot) [QUOTE=TIME] The very first surprise in The Empire Strikes Back comes in the opening credits: the movie is identified as Episode V. Since it is the immediate sequel to the original Star Wars, that opus has been retitled Star Wars: Episode IV, raising a meteor shower of questions. The answers: Lucas has begun his space saga in the middle, and both pictures are the centerpieces of a projected nine-part series. [/QUOTE] The look at what he says about the full story is a little interesting, if people can’t read it I’ll post more clips of the article. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/67 "2007-06-22T17:10:45Z")
Regarding Obi-Wan’s death, I believe it was in **Skywalking** , George Lucas’s early biography, where it talks about how he had serious writer’s block with how to deal with the Obi-Wan character, since after the Death Star there wasn’t anything for him to do, and that’s how he came up with the idea of killing him. And yes, Alec Guiness, according to the book, was pissed off. That’s where that story comes from, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/68 "2007-06-22T18:34:12Z")
[QUOTE=Bill Door] You know, surprisingly enough it’s not just distinguished Shakespearean actors who feel that way. I was eating dinner next to [Christopher MacDonald](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001520/) in Shreveport, and a guy across the bar yelled “Hey, Shooter”. Mr. MacDonald says “Call me Chris” and then mutters under his breath, “85 movies and everybody calls me Shooter”. He didn’t seem enthusiastic about it. [/QUOTE] I’ve heard this before and I still can’t grasp it. Without Happy Gilmore, Christopher MacDonald is nothing more “somebody’s dad” in like 90% of those movies. And nobody remembers “somebody’s dad.” ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/69 "2007-06-22T19:28:09Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] I’ve heard this before and I still can’t grasp it. Without Happy Gilmore, Christopher MacDonald is nothing more “somebody’s dad” in like 90% of those movies. And nobody remembers “somebody’s dad.” [/QUOTE] Somebody’s _evil_ dad. Isn’t he always a conniving bastard? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/70 "2007-06-22T19:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=Bill Door] You know, surprisingly enough it’s not just distinguished Shakespearean actors who feel that way. I was eating dinner next to [Christopher MacDonald](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001520/) in Shreveport, and a guy across the bar yelled “Hey, Shooter”. Mr. MacDonald says “Call me Chris” and then mutters under his breath, “85 movies and everybody calls me Shooter”. He didn’t seem enthusiastic about it. [/QUOTE] [I Am Not Spock](http://www.amazon.com/Am-Not-Spock-Leonard-Nimoy/dp/1568496915/ref=sr_1_1/103-5101961-4735810?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182540616&sr=1-1), originally published in 1977. [I Am Spock](http://www.amazon.com/I-Am-Spock-Leonard-Nimoy/dp/0786889101/ref=sr_1_2/103-5101961-4735810?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182540616&sr=1-2), originally published in 1995. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/71 "2007-06-22T20:27:01Z")
[QUOTE=Snooooopy] Somebody’s _evil_ dad. Isn’t he always a conniving bastard? [/QUOTE] Certainly not. Sometimes he’s even noble and self-sacrificing: [http://www.planetspace.de/startrek/shows/showimage.php?show=tng163](http://www.planetspace.de/startrek/shows/showimage.php?show=tng163) ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/72 "2007-06-22T20:27:35Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] I’ve heard this before and I still can’t grasp it. Without Happy Gilmore, Christopher MacDonald is nothing more “somebody’s dad” in like 90% of those movies. And nobody remembers “somebody’s dad.” [/QUOTE] 😕 I take extreme offense to this, actually. He’s Jack Barry. He’s…Jack Barry. He’s JACK Barry. He’s Jack…Barry. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/73 "2007-06-22T20:39:25Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Certainly not. Sometimes he’s even noble and self-sacrificing: [http://www.planetspace.de/startrek/shows/showimage.php?show=tng163](http://www.planetspace.de/startrek/shows/showimage.php?show=tng163) [/QUOTE] You were taken in by that goody-goody act? I saw a malicious schemer desperate to return to his own timeline so he could continue to screw over his estranged wife in their divorce proceedings. (She didn’t exist in the new timeline.) He was going to kick some Romulan butt, then beam over to the courtroom and lie about all of the assets he had transferred to a hidden account. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/74 "2007-06-22T21:02:36Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] 😕 I take extreme offense to this, actually. He’s Jack Barry. He’s…Jack Barry. He’s JACK Barry. He’s Jack…Barry. [/QUOTE] Did you say Emily Dickinson? ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/75 "2007-06-23T00:15:19Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] Sorry, no. When the original film was re-released in 1981, “Episode IV: A New Hope” was added above the original opening crawl. That was nearly 2 decades before “Phantom Menace” came out. I remember the hubbub that changed caused at the time. [/QUOTE] Does that count as a name change? I don’t recall the film ever being called anything other than simply “Star Wars” until the post-Phantom DVD release… Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/76 "2007-06-23T00:28:02Z")
[QUOTE=wheresgeorge04] Does that count as a name change? I don’t recall the film ever being called anything other than simply “Star Wars” until the post-Phantom DVD release… [/QUOTE] WAG: I don’t believe there was a need for the subtitle A New Hope to be widely known until the prequels because it was just Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. Once Phantom Menace came out, suddenly people who’d only known ANH as Star Wars were wondering why Phantom Menace was being called Episode 1, and the focus on the numbers for the original trilogy increased. Also, now that there’s an entire six movies in the Star Wars setting, it’s more precise to call Star Wars by A New Hope. But yes, since 1981, the technical full name of Star Wars has been Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/77 "2007-06-23T14:38:05Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] 😕 I take extreme offense to this, actually. He’s Jack Barry. He’s…Jack Barry. He’s JACK Barry. He’s Jack…Barry. [/QUOTE] I like Christopher McDonald, I really do. I think he’s one of the all-time great “That Guys.” But seriously, look over his credits and see how many times he’s in a movie as “[main character’s] dad” or “[main character’s] brother” or '[main character’s] husband" or “Guy on TV.” He’s known as Shooter McGavin because that is his biggest (and most memorable) role. Plus, there’s the whole evil-schtick that **Snooooopy** pointed out. Shooter’s pretty evil and so he’s pretty easy to remember. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/78 "2007-06-23T16:08:44Z")
Not to hijack this into a Chris McDonald thread, but he has a great line in American Pie: Naked Mile. Paraphrased from when his son is caught jacking off: "You’re a Stifler. What are you doing hanging around the house, _pulling dick_? ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/79 "2007-06-24T10:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] 2- For those who don’t know him from his classic films, what are the chances they’d have remembered him at all had it not been for Obi Wan? [/QUOTE] That’s a good point. In cases I would encounter the name of Sir Alec Guiness without his having been in Star Wars, he would have been an old-school british actor with whom I would have little to no relationship with. I do feel, however, that some of the reactions here are a bit exaggerated. Yes, he got wealthy with Star Wars, at least I assume so. But when doing Star Wars he was already 63 years old. All the billions of dollars in the world can’t change the fact that he was coming to the age where he would look back at his career and life and see what he has accomplished and most of all, what he would be remembered by. And while it is a big feat to help an indie film like Star Wars reach such enormous popularity, I can certainly understand that from the view of a professional actor, his previous accomplishments have a much bigger relevance to him. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759/80 "2007-06-24T22:11:21Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] Regarding Obi-Wan’s death, I believe it was in **Skywalking** , George Lucas’s early biography, where it talks about how he had serious writer’s block with how to deal with the Obi-Wan character, since after the Death Star there wasn’t anything for him to do, and that’s how he came up with the idea of killing him. And yes, Alec Guiness, according to the book, was pissed off. That’s where that story comes from, IIRC. [/QUOTE] The annotated scripts mention that Lucas felt he didn’t have much for Obi-Wan to do, which is why he killed him, but before that I also read (maybe in Skywalking) that the reason was that Lucas decided it was too easy for the heroes to have escaped from the Death Star unscathed. I’ve never heard that Guiness had anything to do with it, and I doubt a professional actor would even suggest such a major plot change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-george-lucas-land-alec-guiness-for-the-first-star-wars/408759.md?page=5)