# How did Groucho Get His Name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364 "2011-05-10T02:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/1 "2011-05-10T02:37:56Z")
Does some SDoper know where the Marx Brothers got their names? Esp Groucho? That doesn’t sound like a nice moniker to me… ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/2 "2011-05-10T02:59:10Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Does some SDoper know where the Marx Brothers got their names? Esp Groucho? That doesn’t sound like a nice moniker to me… Just that his character was grouchy. Harpo is pretty obvious, Chico nearly as much. Gummo (the non-performing brother) got his name because he wore gum-soled shoes. Zeppo is a complete mystery, but[this picture of the four](http://api.ning.com/files/muC4qeCiqKNZ-Y*k5gPnJXzMrwaniCm1k0DwzJ1qWWBjTcCQ5*BiFlk4M9BEMerUuEMnQJaoh8RRos-rjrnm6dOyqHwy8nSU/chairs.jpg) has a harp for Harpo, a chick for Chico, a zeppelin for Zeppo and a grouchy face for Groucho. I love Wikipedia. I had no idea that Jack Benny’s wife [Mary Livingston](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Livingstone) was a cousin of the Marx Brothers. (Birth name Sadie Marks). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/3 "2011-05-10T03:10:14Z")
Probably because he preferred to be left alone so he could read. There are two theories to Groucho’s nickname: he was a grouch, or he carried his money in what was called a grouch bag. There’s no documentation for either one, and I think even Groucho wrote that he wasn’t sure where it came from. [The most common story about how and when they got their nicknames has some holes in it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12030997&post12030997). Harpo played the harp and Chicko (later shortened to Chico, and don’t pronounce it “Cheeko”) was always on the prowl for chicks. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/4 "2011-05-10T03:52:18Z")
He was a grouch. A lot of his quips came from anger. The wiki article mentions how he got his radio show. It’s surprising the public liked him so much. The guy really was mean spirited. > [@](#): > > Groucho was scheduled to appear on a radio show with Bob Hope. Annoyed that he was made to wait in the waiting room for 40 minutes, Groucho went on the air in a foul mood. > > Hope started by saying “Why, it’s Groucho Marx, ladies and gentlemen! (applause) Groucho, what brings you here from the hot desert?” > Groucho retorted, “Hot desert my foot, I’ve been standing in the cold waiting room for forty MINUTES!” > Groucho continued to ignore the script, and although Hope was a formidable ad-libber in his own right, he could not begin to keep up with Groucho, who lengthened the scene well beyond its allotted time slot with a veritable onslaught of improvised wisecracks. > > Listening in on the show was producer John Guedel, who got a brainstorm. He approached Groucho about doing a quiz show, to which Groucho derisively retorted, “A quiz show?!? Only actors who are completely washed up resort to a quiz show!” ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/5 "2011-05-10T03:57:46Z")
The popular story was that Julius Marx was given the nickname “Groucho” during a poker game, and MAYBE that’s true… but it seemed like a concocted story. True or not, Marx told that story so many times, he may have come to believe it himself. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/6 "2011-05-10T04:06:20Z")
More importantly, how did that elephant get into his pajamas? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/7 "2011-05-10T04:18:50Z")
We’ll never know! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/8 "2011-05-10T05:07:26Z")
I dunno if [TVTropes](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarxBrothers) counts as Word of God, but here goes: > [@](#): > > The family had five brothers, although only four (and later three) performed together at a given time. According to interviews Groucho gave late in his life, their stage names reflected personal traits or important events in their lives, and were inspired by a comic strip called “Sherlocko the Monk,” which triggered a brief rash of nicknames ending in “-o”. > > ``` > * Groucho (Julius Henry Marx), nicknamed for his abrasive wit. (Some sources say the name came from his "grouch bag", a bag worn around the neck, and used to keep money, as vaudeville performers were sometimes not above stealing from each other.) Known for his cigar and mustache (which was actually a stripe of greasepaint, at least until he became the host of You Bet Your Life in the 1950s and grew a real one). A cross between a participant and a commentator, Groucho's on-screen persona would inspire comedians from Alan Alda to the MST3K team. Later in life, he became a fan and friend of Alice Cooper, oddly enough. > > * Chico (Leo or Leonard Marx); pronounced "chicko", his nickname referred to his habit of "chicken chasing" (womanizing). His trademarks were an Italian accent, a conical black hat, and a distinctive style of piano playing where he would "shoot" selected keys with his fingers held to form a gun. The most traditional comedian of the three major brothers, Chico would typically find himself providing the verbal component to Harpo's mime, or sparring with Groucho. > > * Harpo (Adolph Marx, later changed to "Arthur"), nicknamed for his virtuoso harp playing (which was completely self-taught). His trademarks were harp playing, a silent mime performance (using a horn instead of speaking), and a clown-like costume featuring a raincoat with apparently bottomless pockets, a curly red (later blond, as it looked better in black-and-white film) wig, and a top hat. He is a virtuoso kleptomaniac with a special knack for pickpocketing, ending up with such unlikely prizes as Groucho's boxers and a random man's birthmark. In the early stage shows, he did an Oirish accent, but it was eventually decided that having him be The Speechless was funnier. His mime routines (most notably the infamous Mirror Scene from Duck Soup) have become a staple for comedy shows today, and even inspired all of Mr. Funny's entire character in the 2009 season of The Mr Men Show. > > * Zeppo (Herbert Marx); according to Groucho, his nickname was born from the arrival of a German zeppelin at Lakehurst, NJ, but the dates do not match. Harpo, in his book Harpo Speaks , claims that the name was derived from a chimpanzee appearing in a comic strip of the day, Mr. Zippo, but when Herbert objected, this was changed to Zeppo. (There are other stories concerning the name's origin, such as the time the brothers were pretending to be farmers in order to dodge serving in World War One and gave each other hayseed names like "Zeke" and "Zeb".) Zeppo was the youngest and most handsome of the brothers, and while still part of the act generally played the straight man and sometimes the romantic lead. His trademark is less developed than the above. (He was a talented comedian, however, once filling in for Groucho during a Vaudeville tour when the latter was ill.) After several movies he followed brother Gummo in leaving the act and becoming a manager for his performing siblings. A talented mechanic and inventor, he also founded a manufacturing company. > > * Gummo (Milton Marx), nicknamed for the sneaky, or "gumshoe", way he had of walking around backstage, or a pair of galoshes ("gumshoes") he had as a child. Gummo left the act when drafted during World War I, although he never reached Europe, about the time the Marxes were first becoming famous. According to That Other Wiki, the contemporary actor Gregg Marx is his grandson. > > * There was actually a sixth Marx Brother, Manfred Marx, who was also the oldest; he died of enterocolitis while still a baby. > > * They are in fact, in no way related to Karl Marx, author of The Communist Manifesto, despite humorist Richard Armour's assertion that Karl was the funniest of the brothers. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/9 "2011-05-10T11:50:19Z")
Groucho’s son Arthur in his book “Life With Groucho” credits a vaudeville wit who gave nicknames to people based on their personalities. Gummo was in the act then and not Zeppo. I don’t have a copy to look up the man’s name. Groucho had a late 1960s album “An evening with Groucho at Carnegie Hall” where he remarks that he never understood his nickname. As aceplace57 remarks it’s interesting how many people liked him, or even liked being insulted by him, although being divorced three times shows there was a limit to some people’s patience. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/10 "2011-05-10T15:37:34Z")
The nickname dispenser was Art Fisher, always called a monologuist, or essentially a stand-up comedian. The year was probably 1914. From _The Marx Bros. Scrapbook_: > [@](#): > > “Our stage names were given to us by a monologist named Art Fisher. He was in the habit of giving people nicknames and they stuck. He named Leonard Chico because girls were called chicks in those days and Chico loved girls. Arthur became Harpo for obvious reasons, Gummo got his name because he was fond of gum sole shoes, and he named me because I was stern and rather serious. Herbert who became Zeppo was too young at that time and wasn’t in the act. He got his name later on. I think Fisher got the names from a cartoon that was appearing in the papers. The Monk Family or something like that. I didn’t mind the name because I wasn’t too crazy about Julius.” Simon Louvish, normally a prime researcher, made the claim in _Monkey Business_ that neither he nor Paul Wesolowski, the world’s number one Marx Brothers fan and expert, could find any trace of a real Art Fisher. But that’s wrong. The [Marxology](http://www.marx-brothers.org/marxology/fisher.htm) site has the proof. Whether he ever pronounced the immortal words and whether it was in a poker game, we’ll never know. If you’re wondering why the -o ending, that page has the answer as well. > [@](#): > > Regarding The Monk Family (“…or something like that”, as Groucho said), these were created by Charles Augustus “Gus” Mager. In 1904, the first of his ‘Monk’ strips appeared, Knocko the Monk, featuring monkey-like characters. Knocko was followed by Rhymo the Monk, Henpecko the Monk, Jolliko the Monk, Freshy the Monk, Sherlocko the Monk (the most succesful, later re-named Hawkshaw the Detective) and - eventually - Groucho the Monk. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/11 "2011-05-10T15:52:08Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > More importantly, how did that elephant get into his pajamas? > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > We’ll never know! The real quote is, “One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don’t know.” Everybody misquotes it, and for the obvious reason that the rhythm is wrong. You want the two-syllable “never” instead of the one syllable “don’t” at the end. “I don’t know” is a throwaway rather than a punch line. [Technically, “I don’t know” as Groucho says it is three unstressed syllables, which isn’t any meter at all. That’s why it’s hard to remember. The unstressed-stressed pattern of “I’ll never know” is a classic iamb - as is the first part of the line, and since it’s probably the most used meter, it sticks in our heads like an earworm. I can spout comedic theory for why “I don’t know” was used: the throwaway punctures Groucho’s pretensions as an explorer and reveals him to be a teller of tales who can’t back up his bravado. But it’s wrong because 80 years of audiences get it wrong.] Morrie Ryskind takes credit for the line, which is from the original play, but it’s the line that should be that everybody remembers and not the line as it was. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/12 "2011-05-10T16:42:40Z")
In, Harpo’s autobiography, _“Harpo Speaks,”_ he said that the names did in fact come during a poker game. The dealer was keeping up a running patter as he dealt the cards and was giving nicknames to the players as he dealt, Gummo was the first, and the others followed, but Groucho got his because of his constant keeping his money in a grouch bag (a small pouch which he constantly kept around his neck on a small leather strap). There was regular theivery backstage when performers were on stage, so Groucho just was being safe. By the way, Groucho always pronounced his brother Chico’s name “Chick - o” not as “Cheek - o” as is usually believed. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/13 "2011-05-10T17:01:34Z")
In a documentary I have seen many times, **The Unknown Marx Brothers** , it’s explained by Harpo as a reference to a Grouch bag, worn around the neck and holding cherished items. Jokingly(?), including “a little reefer.” ETA : It may not have been Harpo. ETA again : What TV Time said. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/14 "2011-05-10T17:33:37Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The real quote is, “One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don’t know.” > > Everybody misquotes it, and for the obvious reason that the rhythm is wrong. You want the two-syllable “never” instead of the one syllable “don’t” at the end. “I don’t know” is a throwaway rather than a punch line. > > [Technically, “I don’t know” as Groucho says it is three unstressed syllables, which isn’t any meter at all. That’s why it’s hard to remember. The unstressed-stressed pattern of “I’ll never know” is a classic iamb - as is the first part of the line, and since it’s probably the most used meter, it sticks in our heads like an earworm. I can spout comedic theory for why “I don’t know” was used: the throwaway punctures Groucho’s pretensions as an explorer and reveals him to be a teller of tales who can’t back up his bravado. But it’s wrong because 80 years of audiences get it wrong.] > > Morrie Ryskind takes credit for the line, which is from the original play, but it’s the line that should be that everybody remembers and not the line as it was. “I don’t know” sounds a lot better to me than “I never knew”., but that may be because I know the bit so well. And “I don’t know” is not anywhere close to being the punchline. It is a bridge to the stream of lines that continue the bit - the Tuscaloosa joke, the “irrelevant” joke and finally the native girls not being developed joke. I don’t know how they played it on Broadway, but in the movie there isn’t a big pause for laughter between each of these lines. The laugh would come when he says “how he got in my pajamas” and not have waited until the end of the line. As for Spaulding being a fake, that was pretty well established by the polar bear line, which even gets him challenged by one of the saps in the audience. In any case, unlike most movie comedies the line got vetted by lots of Broadway audiences. Groucho sure wouldn’t have kept it if it didn’t work. I remember hearing the line as a kid before I ever saw the movie, probably in a Warner Brothers cartoon. Maybe they screwed it up. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/15 "2011-05-10T17:37:40Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The real quote is, “One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don’t know.” > > Everybody misquotes it, and for the obvious reason that the rhythm is wrong. Groucho never said, “Play it again, Sam,” or “We don’t need no stinkin’ badges,” either. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/16 "2011-05-10T18:14:44Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > By the way, Groucho always pronounced his brother Chico’s name “Chick - o” not as “Cheek - o” as is usually believed. And – see post #8 – comes from his reputation as a “chicken chaser.” I had always assumed he picked the name to go with his Italian-immigrant persona; and that it was somehow connected with the usage of “Chico” for a Latin-American immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/17 "2011-05-10T18:16:20Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Groucho never said, “Play it again, Sam,” or “We don’t need no stinkin’ badges,” either. 😃 But, believe it or not, [Groucho really **did** say . . .](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/380/did-groucho-marx-utter-a-famous-double-entendre-ad-lib-on-the-air=) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/18 "2011-05-10T18:17:33Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The real quote is, “One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don’t know.” > > Everybody misquotes it . . . [Beam me up, Scotty!](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeamMeUpScotty) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/19 "2011-05-10T18:29:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The real quote is, “One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don’t know.” > > Everybody misquotes it, and for the obvious reason that the rhythm is wrong. You want the two-syllable “never” instead of the one syllable “don’t” at the end. “I don’t know” is a throwaway rather than a punch line. If you disagree with **Exapno Mapcase** in a Marx Brothers thread, you’re usually wrong- but I have to disagree with you here. “I don’t know” fits the rhythm of that line better that “I’ll never know.” You have to hit the “never” pretty hard, and in any case that comes after the funny part of the line, which is “how [the elephant] got in my pajamas.” So you want everything after that to go by quickly. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364/20 "2011-05-10T19:02:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, believe it or not, [Groucho really **did** say . . .](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/380/did-groucho-marx-utter-a-famous-double-entendre-ad-lib-on-the-air=) Groucho said “The URI you submitted has disallowed characters.”? I think your link is bad. I think you meant [this one](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/380/did-groucho-marx-utter-a-famous-double-entendre-ad-lib-on-the-air). 🆒 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-groucho-get-his-name/581364.md?page=2)