# How did he get into a nightclub with two guns and over 100 bullets? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 15, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461 "2016-06-15T20:43:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blueslipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@blueslipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blueslipper)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/1 "2016-06-15T20:43:33Z")
How did he get into a nightclub with two guns and over 100 bullets? Did the security let him in the front door? Did he carry a bag of ammunition with him? Did anyone try to stop or attack him? Have any of these questions been addressed? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/2 "2016-06-15T20:44:54Z")
[He shot his way in.](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/diary-massacre-how-orlando-nightclub-shooting-unfolded-n590751) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/3 "2016-06-15T20:48:11Z")
Bullets go in magazines(metal, not paper). It’s trivial to carry several with the appropriate clothing/pouches. Off-duty police officer(armed) working as security engaged him in a gun battle as he entered. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/4 "2016-06-15T20:51:29Z")
Link says it’s unknown how he got in. Assuming he shot his way in is not unreasonable, but the timeline in the link goes from “armed man approaches” to “gunfire hard to hear over music.” Which is, of course, why about 99% of the school security measures are useless. They assume the perp is going to try to quietly enter before going Rambo, and all he has to do is drive through barriers, shoot through largely unarmored doors, or otherwise start the action about 30 seconds earlier. ETA: And solo armed security, pretty much ditto. None of them is going to win against a perp with a weapon, ten feet away and ready to start killing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/5 "2016-06-15T20:52:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Bullets go in magazines(metal, not paper). It’s trivial to carry several with the appropriate clothing/pouches. > > Off-duty police officer(armed) working as security engaged him in a gun battle as he entered. [AR-15 magazine](http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Ar15-Gun-Magazines.jpg). Not all that big. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/6 "2016-06-15T20:52:49Z")
Plus the armed school teachers will helpfully (for the shooter) have their guns locked away. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/7 "2016-06-15T20:59:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [AR-15 magazine](http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Ar15-Gun-Magazines.jpg). Not all that big. I’m guessing they each hold about 15 rounds? Six of those in various pockets (plus 1 in the gun), and you’ve got 100 rounds ready for action. He had a semi-auto handgun too, the magazines for which would have been even more compact. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/8 "2016-06-15T21:07:55Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I’m guessing they each hold about 15 rounds? Six of those in various pockets (plus 1 in the gun), and you’ve got 100 rounds ready for action. > > He had a semi-auto handgun too, the magazines for which would have been even more compact. 30 rounds. [.223 round.](http://john1911.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/photo-2b-864x1152.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/9 "2016-06-15T21:09:04Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I’m guessing they each hold about 15 rounds? Six of those in various pockets (plus 1 in the gun), and you’ve got 100 rounds ready for action. > > He had a semi-auto handgun too, the magazines for which would have been even more compact. That is a thirty round magazine. A 30-round mag is the standard size for an AR-15. One mag in the magazine well and one in each pocket makes 90. It is an absolutely trivial matter to carry hundreds of rounds. I can easily carry 200+ rounds just on the pouches on my army vest. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/10 "2016-06-15T21:14:41Z")
And he knew the layout of the building well enough to know where and when to enter (near closing time when people are concentrating on getting people out, not people coming in) and where to position himself to choke off the flow of people from the exits. This guy was crazy smart. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/11 "2016-06-15T21:16:31Z")
He didn’t have an AR 15. He had a Sig Sauer MCX. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/12 "2016-06-15T21:23:40Z")
There is a video making the rounds of social media right now demonstrating how a man wearing a shirt and jeans can hide both weapons in his clothes (no extra garments) and carry at least 200 rounds in magazines. In the darkness of the night at a crowded entrance it’s very plausible to gain access, walk into a restroom stall, gear up, and return to the greater bar area and start shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/13 "2016-06-15T21:24:51Z")
How did he get into a nightclub with two guns and over 100 bullets? **See above** Did the security let him in the front door? **No** Did he carry a bag of ammunition with him? **No** Did anyone try to stop or attack him? **Yes, off duty police officers, working security.** Have any of these questions been addressed? **Yes.** ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/14 "2016-06-15T21:41:05Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And he knew the layout of the building well enough to know where and when to enter (near closing time when people are concentrating on getting people out, not people coming in) and where to position himself to choke off the flow of people from the exits. This guy was crazy smart. Doesn’t this seem kinda obvious? Evil yes, smart no. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/15 "2016-06-15T21:45:16Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > He didn’t have an AR 15. He had a Sig Sauer MCX. I Knew that didn’t sound like a Colt… ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/16 "2016-06-15T23:08:04Z")
This illustration says he entered through a side door: > **[How the Pulse nightclub shooting unfolded](https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2017/01/18/how-pulse-nightclub-shooting-unfolded/85850060/)** > > A USA TODAY motion graphic detailing how America’s deadliest mass-shooting in history unfolded Sunday, June 12, 2016 in Orlando Florida. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/17 "2016-06-15T23:12:55Z")
The NATO standard magazine holds 30 rounds and is compact, one of the selling points of the military’s switch to 5.56mm ammo was to carry more rounds with less weight and bulk. Pistol magazines are anywhere from 7 to 16 rounds depending on gun and caliber and are even smaller. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Which is, of course, why about 99% of the school security measures are useless. They assume the perp is going to try to quietly enter before going Rambo, and all he has to do is drive through barriers, shoot through largely unarmored doors, or otherwise start the action about 30 seconds earlier. > > ETA: And solo armed security, pretty much ditto. None of them is going to win against a perp with a weapon, ten feet away and ready to start killing. > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And he knew the layout of the building well enough to know where and when to enter (near closing time when people are concentrating on getting people out, not people coming in) and where to position himself to choke off the flow of people from the exits. In any such scenario the attacker has significant advantages of choice of time/place/form, initiative, planning aforethought, and element of surprise; while security at a “soft target”, meanwhile, does not enjoy a secure defensive position with clear fields of fire. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/18 "2016-06-16T00:25:16Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Doesn’t this seem kinda obvious? Evil yes, smart no. I hate to say it but he was unusually smart and/or talented. He set a record for the greatest number of mass shooting victims in U.S. history. That is difficult to pull off even working as team let alone as a single gunman. Sure, the basic strategy seems obvious but he exploited every weakness he could find to make it work (nighttime, near closing time, loud music, enclosed area, mostly intoxicated victims). Plenty of other mass murderers would have loved to have had higher body counts than they acheived but they were taken down well before they realized their true goal. As a single shooter, you are still very vulnerable to being taken down from the sides or back especially if you are in a crowded space surrounded by hundreds of people. You can only shoot in one direction at a time so there is always a window of opportunity to be rushed or shot from behind. I am not sure why that didn’t happen in this case but the planning was unusually well executed. It is a blessing that most potential mass murderers aren’t nearly that skilled or cunning. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/19 "2016-06-16T01:01:26Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Plus the armed school teachers will helpfully (for the shooter) have their guns locked away. What? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461/20 "2016-06-16T02:52:22Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Pistol magazines are anywhere from 7 to 16 rounds depending on gun and caliber and are even smaller. Some pistols have 30 round magazines available. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-he-get-into-a-nightclub-with-two-guns-and-over-100-bullets/757461.md?page=2)