# How Did Hitler Wind Up In The German Army? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942 "2015-10-08T17:47:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/41 "2015-10-10T03:07:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Approximately 4,000,000 Iron Crosses Second Class and 145,000 Iron Crosses First Class were awarded in World War I. The exact numbers aren’t know because the records were destroyed during World War II. All of the First Class awards represent duplicate recipients; you had to have been awarded a Iron Cross Second Class in order to be awarded a First Class. > > There was also a Iron Cross Grand Class, which was only awarded to Generals and a Star of the Grand Class, which was only awarded twice; once to Field Marshal Blucher in 1813 \<_Panicked Whinny_\> ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/42 "2015-10-10T03:26:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He received the Iron Cross Second Class in December 1914 when he and another soldier spotted a wounded officer out in the open and went out to carry him back to safety. He received the Iron Cross First Class in August 1918 when he captured a French outpost; Hitler was alone but he convinced the French soldiers that they were surrounded and they surrendered. The version I heard was less glamorous: Hitler’s advanced position came under intermittent friendly fire, and the unit lieutenant (Hugo Gutmann- A Jew) promised Hitler the message running specilaist an IC 1st class if he could get back and tell the artillery to change their aim. Hitler made it and got the IC 1st. IIRC Gutmann emigrated to the US between wars; he has a wiki article. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/43 "2015-10-10T04:59:33Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > The version I heard was less glamorous: > > Hitler’s advanced position came under intermittent friendly fire, and the unit lieutenant (Hugo Gutmann- A Jew) promised Hitler the message running specilaist an IC 1st class if he could get back and tell the artillery to change their aim. Hitler made it and got the IC 1st. IIRC Gutmann emigrated to the US between wars; he has a wiki article. I’m guessing the source on that probably goes back to a relatively recent book, _Hitler’s First War_ by Thomas Weber. Weber’s overall argument is that past reports that Hitler was a good soldier in WWI are wrong; he says that Hitler was a mediocre soldier at best and his record was later polished up when he took power. I haven’t read Weber’s book. And I’m in no position to check his sources. But I do know that Weber’s work falls outside the general consensus of Hitler biographies and some people have argued the book makes false assumptions and accepts questionable sources. All I can honestly say is that I don’t know. I certainly haven’t read the original sources (I don’t even know German if I had access to them). Perhaps Weber has unearthed genuine new information and offered a valid reappraisal on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/44 "2015-10-10T09:55:53Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > The version I heard was less glamorous: > > Hitler’s advanced position came under intermittent friendly fire, and the unit lieutenant (Hugo Gutmann- A Jew) promised Hitler the message running specilaist an IC 1st class if he could get back and tell the artillery to change their aim. Hitler made it and got the IC 1st. IIRC Gutmann emigrated to the US between wars; he has a wiki article. I just looked up Professor Sir Ian Kershaw’s biography of Hitler. The first version, of capturing a French outpost, was what was claimed in Nazi era history text books. The second version was the reality. On the promotion point, Kershaw reports that Max Amann, a staff sergeant, and Fritz Weidemann, the regimental adjutant, said that Hitler refused to be considered for promotion. His reference for this is a 1989 German biography of Hitler. On Hitler’s nationality, he renounced his Austrian citizenship in 1925. He was then technically stateless until 1932,at which point he ran against Hindenburg for the Presidency. This required German citizenship, and he acquired it by being nominated as a civil servant. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/45 "2015-10-10T10:03:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m guessing the source on that probably goes back to a relatively recent book, _Hitler’s First War_ by Thomas Weber. Weber’s overall argument is that past reports that Hitler was a good soldier in WWI are wrong; he says that Hitler was a mediocre soldier at best and his record was later polished up when he took power. > > I haven’t read Weber’s book. And I’m in no position to check his sources. But I do know that Weber’s work falls outside the general consensus of Hitler biographies and some people have argued the book makes false assumptions and accepts questionable sources. > > All I can honestly say is that I don’t know. I certainly haven’t read the original sources (I don’t even know German if I had access to them). Perhaps Weber has unearthed genuine new information and offered a valid reappraisal on the topic. I have only read parts of Weber’s book, its palpably bad, “Hitler was evil OK”. What makes it clear to me that the traditional record of Hitler’s WW1 service is likely accurate, is that its actually not all that unusual, he served four years and his actions while brave are not exactly above and beyond the call of duty. Difficult and dangerous? Yes. Much more than what many thousands of Germans did? No. If it was an embellishment, it was a poor one. As it is, plenty of evil men have distinguished combat records. Josef Mengle did. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/46 "2015-10-10T10:44:32Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What makes it clear to me that the traditional record of Hitler’s WW1 service is likely accurate, is that its actually not all that unusual, he served four years and his actions while brave are not exactly above and beyond the call of duty. Difficult and dangerous? Yes. Much more than what many thousands of Germans did? No. > > If it was an embellishment, it was a poor one. > > As it is, plenty of evil men have distinguished combat records. Josef Mengle did. I was thinking about this thread and came to a similar conclusion, unlike many dictators or persons in position of power Hitler apparently didn’t feel the need to embellish or exaggerate his war record. He obviously felt it stood on its own merits. Was it exceptional? No. Was it something he had the right to feel a certain pride in? I don’t see why not. I do recall reading that Hitler enjoyed the military life and was disappointed and somewhat disorientated when he was considered surplus to requirements and demobilised after the end of the war _(like most of the others in his position)_, so he cast around for a bit before hitting on his purpose in life, politics. Its one of those ‘what if’ things like if he had been accepted for art school, if he had been retained in the army perhaps he wouldn’t have gone the very dark path that he did. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/47 "2015-10-10T11:53:11Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > As I wrote earlier, there were relatively (i. e. compared to the armies in other countries) few available ranks in the German military to begin with and those who were promoted were carefully chosen, even during times of war. That’s also true for the officer corps. For instance, if a career officer held the rank of second lieutenant at the beginning of WWI (and still in his early to mid twenties), he typically would only make it to captain by the end of the war, even if he proved to be very capable and courageous (see for instance Erwin Rommel). This also means that already by the end of 1914, a lot of company commanders were lieutenants, many of them reserve officers. The German military was very reluctant to grant anybody who didn’t have the desired educational and especially social background access to the officer corps. Being promoted “through the ranks” from enlisted to officer was extremely rare and only for those with long and distinguished career as senior NCOs before the war. > > With regards to Hitler, I guess they just didn’t think that he would be a good leader of men and they wouldn’t promote him just because for length of service. Thanks…now i understand why Lt. Stekel (“The Blue Max”) had such a hard time from his brother officers. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/48 "2015-10-10T13:42:24Z")
A common soldier didn’t have any say in what his assignment or his duties would be (and particularly in the case of Adolf Hitler who didn’t have any unusual skills or professional qualifications). It’s not as if a private could have knocked on the makeshift door of his company commander in the trench and say: “Gee, captain, I don’t think this fighting business is working for me on a professional level. I feel that my true strengths lie in office management and I hereby request to be transfered to the regimental staff.” ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942/49 "2015-10-10T17:12:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m guessing the source on that probably goes back to a relatively recent book, _Hitler’s First War_ by Thomas Weber. Weber’s overall argument is that past reports that Hitler was a good soldier in WWI are wrong; he says that Hitler was a mediocre soldier at best and his record was later polished up when he took power. > > I haven’t read Weber’s book. And I’m in no position to check his sources. But I do know that Weber’s work falls outside the general consensus of Hitler biographies and some people have argued the book makes false assumptions and accepts questionable sources. > > All I can honestly say is that I don’t know. I certainly haven’t read the original sources (I don’t even know German if I had access to them). Perhaps Weber has unearthed genuine new information and offered a valid reappraisal on the topic. Google indicates the book you mention was published in 2010, and I first read the version reported in reply #42 decades ago, maybe as early as the 1970s. I also recall that Hitler never provided a personal, official version of the events leading to the award; the fact that it was due to the recommendation of a Jewish officer would explain his reticence. The IC 1st Class was rarely awarded to enlisted men in WW1, and Hitler, who had no personal connections, is unlikely to have gotten it unless it was fully deserved. Also, Hitler had plenty of enemies during his rise to power, and it is reasonable to assume that if there was any dirt behind Hitler’s award they would not have missed it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-hitler-wind-up-in-the-german-army/733942.md?page=2)