# How did Japan manage not to get invaded or colonized (in contrast to virtually all else in SE Asia)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 5, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-japan-manage-not-to-get-invaded-or-colonized-in-contrast-to-virtually-all-else-in-se-asia/700471 "2014-10-05T19:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-japan-manage-not-to-get-invaded-or-colonized-in-contrast-to-virtually-all-else-in-se-asia/700471/21 "2014-10-07T14:35:57Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Most of the islands are a non-issue, they’re relatively small. By far the most work at the time would have been conquering Honshu, the rest is just cleanup. Absolutely not. The strong Satsuma clan in southern Kyushu and the Choshu clan were just on the other side of Honshu. The Tosa were in Shikoku. These were just the factions which came together against the bakufu government. > [@](#): > > You have to remember that, somewhat ironically for an island nation, Japan never had a strong naval tradition. The Japanese naval tradition was essentially that naval battles were land battles with moving pieces of land. They relied extremely heavily on boarding, and somewhat on arrow ships. They have a somewhat storied tradition of piracy along the East Asian coast, but not much of naval dominance. > > Any naval power with a history of naval tactics and advanced technology, like basically all the colonial nations, could have rather effectively shut down any of Japan’s capability to reinforce from Shikoku or Kyushu, much less places as far off as the Ryukyu islands. No, Japan was too far away from support bases for allow a permanent blockage such as what the Northern States imposed on the South in the Civil war. Prior to modernization, the Japanese did not require a navy, as Korea was never strong enough to invade Japan and China was never interested, nor had the navy. Unlike Europe where the British Isles were close enough to the continent, the Sea of Japan was large enough to permit isolation. > [@](#): > > I think it comes down to the fact that it was too much trouble to really be worth the effort. Cracking post-Sakoku Honshu would have been tough. It probably would have been doable, but what would the point even be? Especially when there are easier and more lucrative targets elsewhere. In fact, I’d wager that by far the hardest part of conquering Japan would have been the potential of fighting the Portuguese and Dutch, and whoever else would have theoretically had an interest in trading with Japan, along with the Japanese. (This is kind of what happened in the Boshin war). No, it would not have been possible. There was a very brief window at the end of the seclusion, so in the late 1850s and early 1860s when the difference in military might between the Western powers and Japan was at their highest. The so-called Anglo-Satsuma War and the Shimonoseki Campaign proved that Western navies could bombard Japanese coasts at will, but there is simply no way for them to have been able to subdue even the entire Kanto region, let alone all of Honshu, saying nothing of the Japanese archipelago. Which Western power would have the ability? The British had a strong navy, but her army was weak and otherwise engaged in the Crimean War and the Indian Rebellion in the last 1850s. The Germans and French were busy getting ready to fight each other, and neither one would have been able to spare their entire army to take on the Japanese. By the late 1860s, the Japanese forces were modernizing quickly enough that it was impossible for a foreign power to invade and defeat them. It wasn’t until WWII when the ten-fold plus size of the American industrial machine, combined with other Allies that would have allowed for a successful invasion. As noted, the Japanese could count on material assistance from other Western powers > [@filmstar-en](#): > > The industrial revolution gave the nations that had this technology a massive military lead and it gave rise to another phase of colonisation. The previous era technology of wooden ships, sails and muskets was not enough to deal with countries capable of organised warfare. The new equipment certainly could: heavy canon, steam powered gun boats, hanguns, breech loading rifles, later the machine gun and the military techniques to use them. The populous nations and empires of the East were a tempting target and there was a great competition between the industrialised powers to carve out spheres of influence in the East which had great potential for trade. Later the same thing happened with Africa. I think many people are forgetting that the great scramble for colonies didn’t occur until the 1870s and lasted until WWI. In 1870 only 10% of Africa was colonized by Western powers, by 1914 it was up to 90%, with only Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and Liberia still independent. By this point, Japan was well on its way to becoming strong enough to defeat any Western power who would have been foolish enough to attempt to invade. > [@](#): > > They just had to be pursuaded to sign treaties. Japan may have been seen as more of a potential ally by some nations in the exploitation of China, which was reluctant to trade. It did not take the Japanese long to start invading neighbouring countries and sieze territory. Japan, was noted for its military tradition. Not really. Japan was seen as a potential market and trading partner but the motivation was not for them to become allied in exploiting China. > [@](#): > > It was interesting that the Chinese thought that natural harbours like Hong Kong to be worthless. The sea was something for lowly fishermen. This was because the trade routes important to the Empire were all land based. The Japanese, being an island nation, saw the potential and set about building their own navy. It’s not simply that the trade routes were land based, in China the vast majority of the people lived inland. The majority of Japanese lived near the sea and were vulnerable to foreign attacks. > [@](#): > > How they changed suddenly from a policy of strict isolationism to internationalism is intriguing. Perry obviously made quite an impression, but they must have had strong leadership as well to put in place such a radical change of policy. This question has fascinated me for the almost 34 years since I first lived in Japan. Why was a feudal system dismantled by the very people who benefited by it? It’s called the Meiji Restoration but also called the Meiji Revolution as it was truly a complete change in society. It seems that the people who started the stone rolling weren’t as intent on making the all the changes, but the revolution started to take a life of its own. It really is an interesting period of history. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-japan-manage-not-to-get-invaded-or-colonized-in-contrast-to-virtually-all-else-in-se-asia/700471/22 "2014-10-08T03:43:05Z")
For the record, China was colonized…by the Manchu. 2 of the last three ‘Chinese’ Dynasties were foreign. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-japan-manage-not-to-get-invaded-or-colonized-in-contrast-to-virtually-all-else-in-se-asia/700471/23 "2014-10-08T07:06:51Z")
Well first and foremost Japan is an island, which helps a great deal. England has only been successfully invaded once (not counting the Romans). They also got lucky (twice) with the kamikaze. No, not the suicide pilots of WWII, but the ‘divine wind’ it’s named for, namely typhoons which twice destroyed huge invasion fleets that one of the Khans was going to use to invade & conquer them. > [@njtt](#): > > It _was_ exploited by western powers, namely America, which [forced it into an undesired trading relationship at naval gunpoint](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Expedition). Well, Japan got a great deal out of this opening of trade too, even if it was still gunboat diplomacy (which was merely how things worked back then). Unlike all the other powers in southeast Asia they quickly saw the incredible advantages of the industrial revolution and embraced them whole-heartedly. This is why within only a couple of generations they became the dominant power in the region (by far). Of course this, combined with their imperial roots, also directly lead to them being the invading, brutal, imperial conquering power of the region as well. When the USS Missouri anchored in Tokyo Bay for Japan’s surrender of WWII the original flag that flew over Commodore Perry’s ship was spirited out of the Smithsonian so it could be flown over it. This was to signify that we were not conquering them, we were again ‘opening’ them to the modern, post-colonial, democratic world. And again, unlike the rest of southeast Asia, Japan embraced democracy & capitalism and this time became the \*economic \*superpower of the region. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-japan-manage-not-to-get-invaded-or-colonized-in-contrast-to-virtually-all-else-in-se-asia/700471/24 "2014-10-08T15:08:04Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > England has only been successfully invaded once (not counting the Romans). … or two out of the Saxons, Normans, or Danes, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-japan-manage-not-to-get-invaded-or-colonized-in-contrast-to-virtually-all-else-in-se-asia/700471/25 "2014-10-08T15:34:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … or two out of the Saxons, Normans, or Danes, apparently. And the [Dutch](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution) in 1688. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-japan-manage-not-to-get-invaded-or-colonized-in-contrast-to-virtually-all-else-in-se-asia/700471.md?page=1)