# How did L. Ron Hubbard claim to have learned about Xenu? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858 "2008-02-01T16:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![happywaffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/1 "2008-02-01T16:06:20Z")
Was just chuckling again at the South Park rendition of “WHAT SCIENTOLOGISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE.” Nutty as it all is, I realized that even in Crazy Town, L. Ron would have had to have claimed to “learn” the truth about thetans, Xenu, and intergalactic federations from millions of years ago. (Not like he made it all up or anything! Ha!) So, how did he CLAIM to come across this information, anyway? Did it come to him in a dream, or what? ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/2 "2008-02-01T17:18:10Z")
[www.xenu.net](http://www.xenu.net) is a great resource site for this cult. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/3 "2008-02-01T21:16:02Z")
[QUOTE=happywaffle] So, how did he CLAIM to come across this information, anyway? Did it come to him in a dream, or what? [/QUOTE] IIRC Scientology and its foundations were the result of a conversations LRF had with a friend who was explaining religion to him. His ultimate response was that if all that was true he could/would whip up his own religion which ultimately became Scientilogy. Boils down to all being the product of a fertile immagination. Read some of his [Sci.Fi](http://Sci.Fi). and you will get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![happywaffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/4 "2008-02-01T21:20:24Z")
[QUOTE=spingears] IIRC Scientology and its foundations were the result of a conversations LRF had with a friend who was explaining religion to him. His ultimate response was that if all that was true he could/would whip up his own religion which ultimately became Scientilogy. Boils down to all being the product of a fertile immagination. Read some of his [Sci.Fi](http://Sci.Fi). and you will get the idea. [/QUOTE] Right, I’ve read that too. And thanks for the [xenu.net](http://xenu.net) link. But neither really addresses what L. Ron told his followers about how he uncovered all this prehistoric superhuman information. Or whether anyone ever bothered to ask. I’m not asking about whether this is a huge pile of bullshit - clearly, it is - but rather about a particular aspect of the bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/5 "2008-02-01T21:22:19Z")
Obviously it’s the inspired word of God, silly. You know, like the book of mormon. ---
**Author:** ![happywaffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/6 "2008-02-01T21:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] Obviously it’s the inspired word of God, silly. You know, like the book of mormon. [/QUOTE] But - sorry to be a grouch - John Smith actually said that the Book of Mormon was the inspired word of God. Question answered. Did L. Ron claim this about Scientology? To my understanding, “God” doesn’t play much of a role (if any) in the whole Xenu mythology. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/7 "2008-02-01T21:36:54Z")
IIRC Hubbard claimed to have remembered it all through autohypnosis after much self auditing. I know [Xenu.net](http://Xenu.net) has records of Scientologists claiming to have recovered memories of incarnations in the Xenu era. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/8 "2008-02-01T21:46:08Z")
[QUOTE=spingears] IIRC Scientology and its foundations were the result of a conversations LRF had with a friend who was explaining religion to him. His ultimate response was that if all that was true he could/would whip up his own religion which ultimately became Scientilogy. Boils down to all being the product of a fertile immagination. Read some of his [Sci.Fi](http://Sci.Fi). and you will get the idea. [/QUOTE] Actor and comics writer Del Close claimed to have been present for this conversation and wrote a segment for a comics series called “Wasteland” about it. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/9 "2008-02-01T21:55:59Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] IIRC Hubbard claimed to have remembered it all through autohypnosis after much self auditing. I know [Xenu.net](http://Xenu.net) has records of Scientologists claiming to have recovered memories of incarnations in the Xenu era. [/QUOTE] Yep. He also claimed to have received grievous injuries from the realization. This is why, the cult claims, you can’t be told about Xenu until you’re ready. The knowledge can harm you. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/10 "2008-02-02T07:12:12Z")
Hubbard was a full fledged astral travelling MoFo. He claimed to have been “almost run over by a frieght locomotive” on Venus. He comments that it is nice and warm in the Van Allen belt. He claims to have received visions. Before Xenu there is a thing about hearing a loud snapping sound and seeing a chariot that “turns right then left”. This is taken as the origin of our universe. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/11 "2008-02-02T11:26:20Z")
It’s all about the super secret OT III, which the “church” has done much to keep out of the public. > [@](#): > > [**Xenu in Scientology doctrine**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Xenu_in_Scientology_doctrine) > > … Hubbard said that he was the first to map a precise route through the Wall of Fire, “probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years”. He first publicly announced his “breakthrough” in Ron’s Journal 67 (RJ67), a tape Hubbard recorded on 20 September 1967 to be sent to all members of the Church. According to Hubbard, his research was achieved at the cost of a broken back, knee and arm. OT III contains a warning that the R6 implant is “calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it.” … > [@](#): > > [**Origins of the Xenu story**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Origins_of_the_Xenu_story) > > Hubbard wrote OT III in late 1966 and early 1967 in North Africa while on his way to Las Palmas to join the Enchanter, the first vessel of his private Scientology fleet (the “Sea Org”). (OT III says “In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge”, but the material was publicised well before this.) He emphasized later that OT III was his own personal discovery. > > Critics of Scientology have suggested that other factors may have been at work. In a letter of the time to his wife Mary Sue, Hubbard said that, in order to assist his research, he was drinking alcohol and taking stimulants and depressants (“I’m drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys”). His assistant at the time, Virginia Downsborough, said that he “was existing almost totally on a diet of drugs.” Miller (p290) speculates that it was important for Hubbard to be found in a debilitated condition, so as to present OT III as “a research accomplishment of immense magnitude”. > > Elements of the Xenu story appeared in Scientology before OT III. Hubbard’s descriptions of extraterrestrial conflicts were put forward as early as 1952 and were enthusiastically endorsed by Scientologists, who documented their past lives on other planets (published in 1960 as Have You Lived Before This Life). OT III may not even have been Hubbard’s first mention of Xenu, albeit in a different form. In an obscure lecture of 25 July 1958, “The Rock: Putting The PC At Cause”, he refers to “Mount Zenu”. Xenu, Hubbard says, was imprisoned under a mountain. … > [@](#): > > [**Legal difficulties and life on the high seas**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard#Legal_difficulties_and_life_on_the_high_seas) > > … A letter Hubbard wrote to his third wife, Mary Sue, when he was in Las Palmas around 1967: “I’m drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys…”. The author of an unauthorized Hubbard biography also says that “John McMasters told me that on the flagship Apollo in the late sixties he witnessed Hubbard’s drug supply. ‘It was the largest drug chest I had ever seen. He had everything!’”. This was confirmed by Gerald Armstrong through Virginia Downsborough who said in 1967 he returned to Las Palmas totally debilitated from drugs. > _We found him a hotel in Las Palmas and the next day I went back to see if he was all right, because he did not seem to be too well. When I went in to his room, there were drugs of all kinds everywhere. He seemed to be taking about sixty thousand different pills. I was appalled, particularly after listening to all his tirades against drugs and the medical profession. There was something very wrong with him… My main concern was to try and get him off all the pills he was on and persuade him that there was still plenty for him to do._“He was existing almost totally on a diet of drugs. For three weeks Hubbard was bedridden, while she weaned him off his habit.” His drug use appears to pre-date the 1967 accounts. … [QUOTE=Happy Wanderer] … Before Xenu there is a thing about hearing a loud snapping sound and seeing a chariot that “turns right then left”. This is taken as the origin of our universe. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > OT III also deals with Incident I, set four quadrillion years ago (roughly 300,000 times longer than current scientific consensus holds the age of the universe to be). In Incident I, the unsuspecting thetan was subjected to a loud snapping noise followed by a flood of luminescence, then saw a chariot followed by a trumpeting cherub. After a loud set of snaps, the thetan was overwhelmed by darkness. This is described as the implant offering the gateway to this universe, meaning that these traumatic memories are what separate thetans from their static (natural, godlike) state. …[RIGHT][CITE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Xenu_in_Scientology_doctrine)[/RIGHT] So to put it in a **nut** shell, WAY too many drugs! Lots o’ links about OT III etc, > **[Xenu | External links](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#External_links)** > > 1."OT III Released" in online edition of What Is Scientology | > 2.OT III Scholarship Page (David S. Touretzky; includes page scans, commentary, audio files) | > 3.Revolt in the Stars summary (Grady Ward) | > 4.Xenu Leaflet (Roland Rashleigh-Berry) | > 5.The Fishman Affidavit: OT III (extracts and synopsis by Karin Spaink) | > 6.A Scientific scrutiny of OT III (Peter Forde, June 1996) Claims about Xenu evaluated against scientific geology | > 7."The History Of Xenu, As Explained By L. Ron Hubbard In 8 ... > **[Operating Thetan | External links](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Thetan#External_links)** > > 1.Summary of Operating Thetan levels I–VIII – Operation Clambake archive | > 2.The Fishman Affidavit – Spaink's archive of court-released and annotated OT documents | > 3.The Fishman Papers – Touretsky's archive of court-released and annotated OT documents | > 4.Collected OT documents – Wikileaks archive [The Secret Library of Scientology](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/index.html) Two good, but long, reads; [_Bare-Faced Messiah_ by Russell Miller](http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm) [_A Piece of Blue Sky_ by Jon Atack](http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/apobs/contents.htm) CMC +fnord! ALL HAIL ZENU ETA **DocCathode** nailed the “official” explanation! ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/12 "2008-02-02T23:51:35Z")
Bare Faced Messiah is a great read. Elron’s real life is even more fascinating than the one they made up for him. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/13 "2008-02-03T00:56:42Z")
[QUOTE=happywaffle] But - sorry to be a grouch - John Smith actually said that the Book of Mormon was the inspired word of God. Question answered. [/QUOTE] [nitpick] It’s **Joe** Smith. Joseph, actually, since that’s what he always went by. And he claimed the Book of Mormon was an English translation of a record ancient inhabitants of the Americas had carved onto metal plates and stored in the ground for ~1400 years, until one of them came to him as an angel and showed him where they were. But your point stands. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/14 "2008-02-03T01:08:17Z")
What I don’t understand…Hubbard was a notorious liar…about everything. His naval career was a disaster (he depth charged a submerged rock , thinking it was a Japanese submarine). His Sci\_Fi was pretty mediocre, and most of the other things he claimed to have done were exaggerated. The whole Xenu story is such BShow do educated people fall for this crap? ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/15 "2008-02-03T01:14:45Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] The whole Xenu story is such BShow do educated people fall for this crap? [/QUOTE] You don’t learn about the Xenu story and other bizarre stuff until you’re in the upper levels of the church, possibly too late for you to be able to get out. There are security checks, and at that point you’ve spent a lot of money and the church is a huge part of your life. They used to sue anybody who published the OT documents, but nowadays they can’t stop them from spreading around on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/16 "2008-02-03T01:15:50Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] It’s **Joe** Smith. Joseph, actually, since that’s what he always went by. And he claimed the Book of Mormon was an English translation of a record ancient inhabitants of the Americas had carved onto metal plates and stored in the ground for ~1400 years, until one of them came to him as an angel and showed him where they were. [/QUOTE] Dum dum dum…dum dum dum…dum dum dum dum dum! ---
**Author:** ![cantara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@cantara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cantara)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/17 "2008-02-04T15:51:41Z")
[QUOTE=riker1384] You don’t learn about the Xenu story and other bizarre stuff until you’re in the upper levels of the church, possibly too late for you to be able to get out. There are security checks, and at that point you’ve spent a lot of money and the church is a huge part of your life. They used to sue anybody who published the OT documents, but nowadays they can’t stop them from spreading around on the Internet. [/QUOTE] As I understand it, the adherants have also gone through years of auditing which requires recording reactions to words. Given the number of words that they will go through and the possibly embarassing reactions to specific words gives the Scientology ‘management’ a large dossier of potentially embarassing or revealing information about the person. That information can (and will) be used against them should they decide to leave the curch. Look up info on Dead Agenting, Suppressive Persons, and Fair Game. These deal with people who are outspoken critics, but leaving the church also means being shunned by all those who remain. What I find particularly interesting is the fact that L. Ron is deemed a god and inerrant, but that [critical documents keep changing](http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/alteringtech.htm), and high-ranking officials who leave the church are ‘erased’ from existence within the church. There are pages of these types of actions buried somewhere in [XENU.NET](http://XENU.NET). ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/18 "2008-02-04T16:30:24Z")
Scientology in a nutshell. PDF [http://www.antisectes.net/42xenub-eng.pdf](http://www.antisectes.net/42xenub-eng.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/19 "2008-02-04T16:35:38Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Dum dum dum…dum dum dum…dum dum dum dum dum! [/QUOTE] Really now. One would have sufficed. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858/20 "2008-02-04T17:45:57Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] This is why, the cult claims, you can’t be told about Xenu until you’re ready. The knowledge can harm you. [/QUOTE] Got better. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-l-ron-hubbard-claim-to-have-learned-about-xenu/435858.md?page=2)