# How did Luddites like McCoy and Phlox get such high-profile postings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715 "2021-03-11T15:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/101 "2021-03-15T14:34:44Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The only time they made an orbit a plot point was Mirror, Mirror, that the ship orbited out of phaser range. In every other episode, Scotty was always ready on a moment’s notice to phaser someone, should the need arise. “The best diplomat is a fully charged phaser bank.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/102 "2021-03-15T15:34:55Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s not a surprise, really. The transporter is a real-time machine and has to deal with data loss on the fly. It materializes what it can and invents the rest. One of the more notorious examples of applied technobabble would be the Heisenberg Compensators. Else all of your elementary particles will have different positions and/or momentums than they formerly did, with dire consequences. [My guess is, at best, you’d come out with a very bad case of amnesia-at worst you would be a gibbering imbecile] ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/103 "2021-03-15T15:54:27Z")
If you want to re-assemble a living person, organ by organ, tissue by tissue, cell by cell, organelle by organelle, then you need very precise information about the positions of the particles. Which means that you cannot have precise information about the energies of the particles. Which I think is likely to end explosively. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/104 "2021-03-15T16:43:15Z")
“Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/105 "2021-03-15T17:22:21Z")
That is why the Heisenberg compensator was developed. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/106 "2021-03-15T18:04:15Z")
Total protonic reversal! ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/107 "2021-03-15T18:14:04Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light. It would be bad. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/108 "2021-03-15T18:16:33Z")
Those are assertions, and have nothing to do with the canonical show. A real transporter would be fatal, but the show transporter has technology to compensate for that. Much like it has made-up technology to fly faster than light. Or create force fields. Or artificial gravity. Or inertial compensators. Or FTL sensors. Or psychic powers. In universe the transporter doesn’t kill and duplicate. We know that because of the way they talk about it, and treat it. You think Picard would kill and duplicate random people without their consent? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/109 "2021-03-15T20:15:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You think Picard would kill and duplicate random people without their consent? Really? Of course he would if he was unaware that that was what he was doing. Everybody in-universe just conveniently assumes Schrodinger’s cat is alive. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/110 "2021-03-15T20:21:28Z")
They use transporters to move around on Earth. This would be a widely discussed issue, and since it isn’t, we know that as far as Federation citizens know, it leaves the original alive. There is exactly zero chance that a small minority of Star Trek nerds know better than Geordi effin’ La Forge. It squishes you into energy, shoots you at the destination, and you spring back. The writers intend that it’s still the original you. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/111 "2021-03-15T20:22:15Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That is why the Heisenberg compensator was developed. Of course, this is just more technobabble. If the Federation is capable of controlling the behavior of quantum mechanics such that they can violate the indeterminacy principle (which is a fundamental principle of quantum mechanics as currently formulated), there is literally no limit to what they could do with such an ability. Certainly, running around in spandex onesies blasting each other with energy weapons like space cowboys is an entirely pointless exercise compared to being able to manipulate fundamental particles and (presumably) being able to access any point in spacetime. It’s like having access to a supermaterial and then using it for the mundane purpose of manufacturing a lighter, stronger beverage can. Not that _Star Trek_ is alone in this, but given the breadth of technomagic available to them, you’d think they’d be further along than this. “The most versatile substance on the planet, and they used it to build a Frisbee.” – Ultron Stranger ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/112 "2021-03-15T20:39:36Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > While I enjoy your theory, I would more likely say the preponderance of stupid or evil admirals is the Peter Principle, not some nefarious manipulation. Nah, nobody stupid would get to Admiral in Starfleet. At worst, you’d have Admirals who were good to great Captains, who are out of their depth at Admiral. That’s how the Peter Principle works- people are promoted one level above their competence, not that people are promoted to get them out of the way. My personal theory is that since money isn’t a thing in the Federation, status is where it’s at, so the promotion path in Starfleet is super-cutthroat and the people making Admiral are most likely the biggest schemers and political operators- those who can play the “game” the best, not necessarily the very best officers. That’s why officers like Kirk and Picard are kind of late in getting their stars (or whatever the Admiral insignia is) versus other officers. They’re concentrating on being excellent at their current job, not aiming a level above. You see this even in our current world; I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen someone get hired, who is not even worried about doing their current job as much as they’re worried about getting promoted to the next one. THAT is their goal, not doing a good job. I’m sure that in a world without money, then that sort of status becomes even more important to some people. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/113 "2021-03-15T22:32:43Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s how the Peter Principle works- people are promoted one level above their competence, not that people are promoted to get them out of the way. Kirk was an excellent captain, but a pretty ineffective admiral - so he’s a perfect example of the Peter Principle (Compare with B5’s Sheridan - an effective Captain (at least by comparison with everyone else), but an excellent political operator at higher levels). There were a few competent and non-evil admirals/Commodores in ST:TOS - Mendez (well, he wasn’t really there, but no one seemed to think the competence of the simulated Mendez was suspicious) and Stone are two examples. For that matter, Decker presumably wasn’t evil or incompetent - he was mentally ill during “Doomsday Machine” for understandable reasons. Picard’s Starfleet seems full of admirals of dubious ethics (and at least one horrible bore), though. It occurs to me that when ST:TOS was written, a lot of the writers may have had some military experience, and so had met officers who were operating in a little over their heads. The same wasn’t true 25 years later. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/114 "2021-03-16T01:43:19Z")
Oh, come now! _When asked by_ Time _magazine in [1994](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/1994_(production)), "_ How do the Heisenberg compensators work? _" [Michael Okuda](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Okuda) replied, "_ They work just fine, thank you. _"_ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/115 "2021-03-16T02:56:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Those are assertions, and have nothing to do with the canonical show. Most of what I mentioned were actual events in the show. Another one: one character had a birthmark moved one centimeter lower than it had been. This wasn’t just a simple error on the part of the transporter, like failing to transmit a 1-centimeter sphere centered on the birthmark. It _moved_ it, editing the skin in the previous location and seamlessly integrating the birthmark in the new location. That’s just the transporter AI showing off at this point. The character was right when she said: > _If that machine could move a birthmark, who knows what else it could do?_ > [@Lobohan](#): > > In universe the transporter doesn’t kill and duplicate. We know that because of the way they talk about it, and treat it. Selection bias. We see very little outside Starfleet and their equivalents, and those require transporter use as part of the job description. Picard and the others simply don’t think about it. After all, it is convenient, and safe enough in the sense of _usually_ not arriving as a mound of charred flesh. We wouldn’t know if 98% of the population thinks the device is a murder box. “Public” transporters do exist but again, only in a biased selection of locations. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/116 "2021-03-16T12:45:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Oh, come now! > _When asked by_ Time _magazine in [1994](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/1994_(production)), "_ How do the Heisenberg compensators work? _" [Michael Okuda](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Okuda) replied, "_ They work just fine, thank you. _"_ That’s what frustrating about surfing [Memory Alpha](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Portal:Main) [main Trek fan wiki]: you go there to find out EXACTLY how a given tech works (in great detail), and come away frustrated because it doesn’t actually tell you. CAN’T tell you, since it was never explained in the show. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/117 "2021-03-16T13:53:09Z")
“Willing suspension of disbelief” plays a part in science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/118 "2021-03-16T14:46:50Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Another one: one character had a birthmark moved one centimeter lower than it had been. Which episode was that? I’m assuming something from Enterprise, because it doesn’t sound familiar at all. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/119 "2021-03-16T14:52:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > “Willing suspension of disbelief” plays a part in science fiction But you don’t have to believe transporters aren’t suicide machines to enjoy Star Trek. You just have to believe that the characters don’t know they are. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/120 "2021-03-16T14:58:10Z")
Yes, from Enterprise: > **[Birthmark](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Birthmark)** > > A birthmark was a discoloration on the skin, which was present at birth or appeared shortly afterwards. Hoshi Sato had a birthmark on her nose. In 2152, she believed that using the transporter had moved it a centimeter lower than it had been... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715.md?page=7)