# How did Luddites like McCoy and Phlox get such high-profile postings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715 "2021-03-11T15:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/121 "2021-03-16T15:08:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > “Willing suspension of disbelief” plays a part in science fiction. Absolutely. The problem, though, is that _Star Trek_ has veered toward not only trying to give some technobabble explanation for how their technology works but then using it for plot resolution. It not only opens leads to bad writing bit it also opens up up a whole can of worms regarding why their technology is sometimes amazing and can fix anything including resequencing a genome and other times useless and can’t be used even for simple things like treating a maiming injury. It isn’t the technobabble technology that is fundamentally a problem; it is the narrative inconsistency it produces. Or, in the words of Lt. Tawny Madison: > Gwen DeMarco: What is this thing? I mean, it serves no useful purpose for there to be a bunch of chompy, crushy things in the middle of a hallway. No, I mean we shouldn’t have to do this, it makes no logical sense, why is it here? > > Jason Nesmith: 'Cause it’s on the television show. > > Gwen DeMarco: Well forget it! I’m not doing it! This episode was badly written! Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/122 "2021-03-16T15:16:13Z")
Every single member of Star Fleet, except perhaps Troi, understands transporters better than anyone in the real world. The idea that you, the fan, have an insight that hasn’t occurred to the scientists and citizens of the Federation is goofy. Transporters are impossible. So the way they function is technobabble. The clear intent of the stories are that they don’t kill you. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/123 "2021-03-16T15:22:15Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Yes, from Enterprise: Thanks. That was after I quit watching. And, to be fair to the transporter technology, that episode was a “didn’t happen” one. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/124 "2021-03-16T15:28:10Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Transporters are impossible. Not if they’re really suicide machines. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/125 "2021-03-16T15:28:35Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The idea that you, the fan, have an insight that hasn’t occurred to the scientists and citizens of the Federation is goofy. Not that I disagree with your premise - I trust that in the universe of the show, the transporter is not a murder box. But… Federation scientists didn’t create the transporter. TV writers did. Writers that probably failed their science classes. (And their creative writing classes, at least some of them…) So, in at least some episodes, the reason the transporter doesn’t make sense isn’t that we don’t understand 24th century tech, but that the writers don’t, either. It’s fair to criticize. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/126 "2021-03-16T15:29:54Z")
I wonder how much of that was more because the line admirals weren’t usually involved. I mean, whatever _Enterprise_ it was, it was certainly part of some kind of Starfleet sub-unit, even if it’s the “Five Year Mission Squadron 1” or something, and that sub-unit would have a commander that Kirk/Picard would have had some degree of regular contact with. And I’m guessing it was typically boring stuff like personnel reports, logistics, etc… and maybe the occasional order to go here or there and do something. IIRC, most of the admirals that played plot roles were either outside of their chain of command, and might have been in charge of other aspects of Starfleet, or they were sort of outside the “usual” roles of flag officers, and basically playing a sort of reverse deus ex machina sort of role- (“A wild Admiral appears!”) in order to drive the characters to some certain point for the plot. My suspicion is that the latter kind was more likely to be ethically suspect if it helped the writer push the plot forward. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/127 "2021-03-16T15:37:15Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Not if they’re really suicide machines. Starfleet rides through mansions of glory? Sprung from cages out on Starbase 9 Warp powered, phase reversed, and steppin’ out over the line Oh, Hoshi, this thing rips the moles from your face It’s a death trap, it’s a suicide rap ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/128 "2021-03-16T15:46:59Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Not if they’re really suicide machines. Which brings up another use for transporters the writers never thought of. No matter how the transporter actually works, if you don’t intend that the person being transported survive the trip, it can always be made faster that any transporter that actually is expected to have people live. So you set up automatic transporters as a defense. When a Borg transports in, before he even fully materializes, your defensive transporter grabs a bubble-shaped area slightly bigger than the Borg drone and sends it out into space. It doesn’t have to “lock on”, and it definitely doesn’t have to remember the pattern. In practice, you could be looking at the spot where a Borg is trying to beam in, and in a shimmer it’s gone. You might see a bit of visual flutter, and the air pressure in the room drops a small bit. Might even hear a unique mini thunderclap as the air is removed. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/129 "2021-03-16T15:47:51Z")
What annoyed me the most is that on the rare occasion we saw large-scale fleet actions, they always had a ship captain - usually Picard or Sisko - in command of the entire federation fleet. Not only were situations like that exactly what you needed a line Admiral in command, the commanding captains were also in charge of their own ships. Which is absurd, because you can’t command a ship and a fleet at the same time; they’re both full-time jobs. Nelson didn’t command the Victory at Trafalger, for instance, and Nimitz didn’t command an aircraft carrier at Midway. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/130 "2021-03-16T16:16:26Z")
Kirk’s Enterprise killed Jack the Ripper by beaming the body he was currently possessing out into space. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/131 "2021-03-16T16:29:20Z")
Yes, the one time they used it as a weapon. It gave me the idea, (Unlike when Kirk beamed two redshirts into space at warp speed. That must have been a surprise for them, to say the least.) eta: You really want to be nasty? You beam the drone back inside the cube, but you reassemble him as antimatter. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/132 "2021-03-16T16:31:53Z")
I forget when I stopped Enterprise - I know I stopped… ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/133 "2021-03-16T19:37:50Z")
Even if some creature is making you read the transporter controls wrong…the machine itself should stop you from beaming two people into space at warp speed without massive command authorizations. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/134 "2021-03-16T19:40:42Z")
I don’t recall many fleet actions, but you make a good point. The writers probably knew nothing about naval fleet battles. It would be easy to make Picard a Commodore, and turn control of Enterprise over to Riker. Concerning other posts in the thread, for Christ’s sake, guys, they are traveling faster than light, which is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/135 "2021-03-16T19:47:02Z")
Before anyone mentions it…my headcanon as to why they have fleet actions at point blank range is because weapons countermeasures have made it nessecery. Also why only our main heroes seem to have shields in massive fleet battles is because it would be visually annoying to see everyones ship bubbles light up. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/136 "2021-03-16T19:52:59Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > > > Not if they’re really suicide machines. > > It doesn’t have to “lock on”, and it definitely doesn’t have to remember the pattern. I believe the, “lock on” part is where the transporter is targeted, so you’d still have to lock on. That said, they should be transporting bad guys every time something happens. But they have established transporter disrupters, so maybe boarding parties carry them. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/137 "2021-03-16T19:56:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Concerning other posts in the thread, for Christ’s sake, guys, they are traveling faster than light, which is impossible. That’s just an unfair criticism. If you’re not willing to buy into the basic premise of Star Trek, well, that’s fine. But to dismiss any show, or criticism of same, because it got one thing wrong, well, then you’ll never enjoy fiction. Because EVERY episodic tv show gets something wrong. Doctor, cop, lawyer, prison, truck driver, etc-based shows always fictionalize something for the purposes of storytelling. If you’re not a trial lawyer, you’ll never catch all the mistrial-inducing or overturn on appeal errors that Jack McCoy commits, or a medical degree to catch all the things House does that would cost him his license, but believe me, they are there. I can handle FTL drive. Just don’t tell bad stories with it. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/138 "2021-03-16T20:10:01Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > Before anyone mentions it…my headcanon as to why they have fleet actions at point blank range is because weapons countermeasures have made it nessecery. IIRC, that was pretty much canon in _Andromeda_. That was a sci-fi series back in the '90s that technically wasn’t Star Trek, but was based on Gene Roddenberry’s notes, and in the first season and a half or so under the original show runner, it produced some of the best Star Trek-style episodes of any series. In at least some of the space battles, I recall dialogue about ECM systems being a prominent component of the tactical situation reports. On the level of personal weapons, there was at least one episode where it was specifically noted in dialogue that Our Heroes wore ECM modules that scrambled the targeting systems on their foes’ weapons. Another episode had a plot point where one of Our Heroes is framed for murder by the Bad Guy remotely discharging a smart-round from their holstered weapon. The weapon is pointing down at the floor, but the smart-round zips up and around and hits the target right in the heart. The clear implication is that in that Trek-like universe, modern weapons are fail-proof, one-shot, one-kill weapons, except advanced ECM defenses mean that everyone winds up resorting to iron sights and Mk I Eyeballs for targeting. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/139 "2021-03-16T20:15:45Z")
It wouldn’t look near as interesting for fleets to fight at realistic (relativistic?) distances. I believe at Midway the enemy fleets never saw each other. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715/140 "2021-03-17T00:22:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Concerning other posts in the thread, for Christ’s sake, guys, they are traveling faster than light, which is impossible. Hmm. Has any creative team/writer come up with a believable Alcubierre-style warp drive? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-luddites-like-mccoy-and-phlox-get-such-high-profile-postings/937715.md?page=8)