# How did mice get such great PR? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 6, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030 "2014-01-06T15:17:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/41 "2014-01-07T02:27:26Z")
The only remotely favorable depiction of rats I can think of was in _ **Chicken Run** _. A more realistic portrayal was given in _ **Lady and the Tramp** _. I caught a field mouse once when I was walking through the countryside in Vermont. He was a cute little guy; he actually darted in front of me and then tried to hide in the space between the heel and sole of my left hiking boot. I picked him up gently and let him go after a minute or so. The neighborhood I live in in Moscow is infested with rats. I hate the friggin’ things! \*\* YEECCH!!!\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/42 "2014-01-07T03:13:11Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Mickey was more man than animal… [Alec Guinness]…twisted and evil.[/Alec Guinness] ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/43 "2014-01-07T04:31:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Alec Guinness]…twisted and evil.[/Alec Guinness] I see what you did there. There still is good in him… ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/44 "2014-01-07T04:38:14Z")
Difference between rats and mice: one is a filthy beast which reeks of urine and often cannibalizes its young. The other is just a rat. 🙂 But rat’s omnivory is more on the “meat” side, and we find that gross (even though a rat’s diet is very similar to our own). > [@Chronos](#): > > We had a pet mouse briefly (rescued from a fate as snake chow), but it did not work out well at all. It panicked at being in a cage, and our dog, who didn’t mind the hamster at all, reacted to it as a Thing That Does Not Belong Here. There might be other breeds that are more domesticated, but this one definitely wasn’t. And I don’t know, but maybe that’s typical. Feeder mice and fancy mice aren’t the same thing. It’s the difference between a Lab and a [Nureongi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nureongi). There is no incentive to keep the feeder line healthy, they just need to live long enough to reach a certain size. I don’t know if this implies mental traits (docility etc.), but I wouldn’t be surprised if pet mice are better at that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/45 "2014-01-07T05:04:00Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > Are you pondering what I’m pondering?.. I think so, **MacTech** , but me and Pippi Longstocking… I mean, what would the children look like? ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/46 "2014-01-07T10:55:47Z")
I used to keep pet mice when I was a kid; thought them cute, but not very characterful. I know, or know of, a couple of adult pet-mice owners-and-enthusiasts nowadays – there are a few around, and they seem to find their rodents as lovable and loving, as is usual with “pet people” and their charges. I gather that in that “fancy”, the correct term for baby mice, is “pups” – something which would never have occurred to me. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/47 "2014-01-07T11:07:14Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > And Kenneth Grahame’s \*\*\*The Wind in the Willows \*\*\*had a rat as its hero in 1908. I gather that many are of the opinion that this character in _TWITW_ is not a true rat, but a European Water Vole (_Arvicola amphibius_) – a semi-aquatic rodent with some superficial resemblance to a rat; but overall, striking folk as cuter and less threatening. In the UK, the water vole is colloquially called the “water rat” – which IIRC is how the author refers to Ratty throughout the book. With Mole as a co-hero, I suppose referring frequently to the doings of “the mole and the vole”, would have come across clunkily: maybe that’s why Grahame went with “rat”. ---
**Author:** ![Swamp\_Adder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Swamp\_Adder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swamp_Adder)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/48 "2014-01-07T14:33:34Z")
Re: rats vs mice as pets: rats live longer. They’re also supposed to be more sociable, though I have never owned mice so I can’t compare. In any case, [as a rat owner](http://the-ratblog.tumblr.com/), I must strongly object to the notion that rats are not cute! ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/49 "2014-01-07T15:44:47Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The only remotely favorable depiction of rats I can think of was in _ **Chicken Run** _. There was Ratatouille, of course, which had a rat as a main character. And Mrs Frisby and the rats of NIMH. It’s actually much harder to come up with examples of evil mice. There was a white mouse in Garry Kilworth’s **House of Tribes** who was definitely evil, but that’s the only example I can think of. Even then, the main villains were a rat and an owl called Merciful. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/50 "2014-01-07T16:05:27Z")
> [@Swamp\_Adder](#): > > Re: rats vs mice as pets: rats live longer. They’re also supposed to be more sociable, though I have never owned mice so I can’t compare. > > In any case, [as a rat owner](http://the-ratblog.tumblr.com/), I must strongly object to the notion that rats are not cute! As perhaps noticeable from my earlier posts in this thread, I am biased, but must say–your ratties are super cute. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/51 "2014-01-07T17:49:14Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > Are you pondering what I’m pondering?.. I think so, **MacTech** , but where _do_ you stick a feather and call it macaroni? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/52 "2014-01-07T18:04:46Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > And Mrs Frisby and the rats of NIMH. [Nitpick]Brisby.[/Nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Swamp\_Adder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Swamp\_Adder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swamp_Adder)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/53 "2014-01-07T18:21:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Nitpick]Brisby.[/Nitpick] Not in the book! ---
**Author:** ![Swamp\_Adder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Swamp\_Adder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swamp_Adder)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/54 "2014-01-07T18:23:26Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > As perhaps noticeable from my earlier posts in this thread, I am biased, but must say–your ratties are super cute. 🙂 Aw, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/55 "2014-01-07T18:29:26Z")
> [@Swamp\_Adder](#): > > Not in the book! No shit? I didn’t know that. You know, I’ve got a fan theory that _Ratatouille_ and _Secret of NIMH_ take place in the same universe - Remy’s family is descended from rats who escaped a French version of the NIMH project. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/56 "2014-01-07T19:23:05Z")
> [@Swamp\_Adder](#): > > Not in the book! Indeed, wiki suggests that they changed it for the movie to avoid trademark issues with Frisbees. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/57 "2014-01-07T21:14:29Z")
I thought Jerry was cute until I saw a cartoon where Jerry was crashing a very hoity-toity party. Tom was trying to keep him out of the hors d’voeuvres and the usual high jinks began. There was Jerry sitting on a roasted chicken. Now Jerry is swimming in the punch bowl. Finally we see Jerry sitting on a train of a fancy party dress and the horrified lady screams when she sees him. After watching that, I never thought Jerry was cute again. Can you imagine going to a party and finding a mouse in the punch bowl? ::shudder:: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/58 "2014-01-07T21:29:22Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > Indeed, wiki suggests that they changed it for the movie to avoid trademark issues with Frisbees. I can see the potential for confusion. I confuse rats with throwing toys all the time. That’s why I have all these festering bites on my hands. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/59 "2014-01-08T00:12:41Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > It’s actually much harder to come up with examples of evil mice. There’s a brief scene in last summer’s animated film _Epic_ where the heroine (a human who’s been magically shrunk down to miniature size) is almost killed by a mouse because she’s naive enough to see the mouse as cute and fuzzy and adorable instead of a vicious predator of bug-sized creatures such as herself. The mouse isn’t exactly evil, though, just an animal looking for a meal. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030/60 "2014-01-08T00:51:35Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Like, say, rats and hamsters? As \*\*DrFidelius \*\*says, a mouse’s reaction to getting cornered is to have a panic attack. A cornered rat OTOH will bite the cat’s eyes out. Back when rat-baiting was a thing (note the “i” there, pervs !) ratter terriers would often come out of the ring badly mangled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-mice-get-such-great-pr/678030.md?page=4)