# How did Nero Wolfe come to hire Archie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 15, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021 "2010-01-15T01:12:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/1 "2010-01-15T01:12:29Z")
I don’t believe Rex Stout describes their meeting, so this is speculation. Was Archive as a kid one of Wolfe’s “Bakersfield Irregulars”? Did Archie save Wolfe in a bar fight, or on the street? Did they meet working on the same case? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/2 "2010-01-15T02:36:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t believe Rex Stout describes their meeting, so this is speculation. > Was Archive as a kid one of Wolfe’s “Bakersfield Irregulars”? Did Archie save Wolfe in a bar fight, or on the street? Did they meet working on the same case? IIRC, Archie was standing duty as a hired security guard down at the docks and shot a crook, which brought him to Nero’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/3 "2010-01-15T02:38:22Z")
I have my hypothesis, but you probably won’t like it. I felt that in the early books the tensions between Wolf and Goodwin had the feel of the squabbling of an long-established couple. This feeling disappears quickly as the series progresses, and in any case it’s probably a flaw in my modern mentality that I tend to conflate homosocial behavior with homosexuality. These days, women are naturally assumed to be able to maintain complex homosocial relationships, but nuanced feelings among men who aren’t brothers or father-and-son ping as gay. So, I’m not saying I’m right, I’m just saying… discuss. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/4 "2010-01-15T02:43:11Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, Archie was standing duty as a hired security guard down at the docks and shot a crook, which brought him to Nero’s attention. Wolfe liked him because he killed someone well? I like it… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/5 "2010-01-15T02:45:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > I have my hypothesis, but you probably won’t like it. No one has ever thought [this](http://www.teemings.net/series_1/issue01/authors.html) before. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/6 "2010-01-15T03:13:03Z")
Ah, I think I’ve got the exact quote, now: [QUOTE=Archie Goodwin] Born in Ohio. Public high school, pretty good at geometry and football, graduated with honor but no honors. Went to college two weeks, decided it was childish, came to New York and got a job guarding a pier, shot and killed two men and was fired, was recommended to Nero Wolfe for a chore he wanted done, did it, was offered a full-time job by Mr. Wolfe, took it, still have it. [/QUOTE] From FOURTH OF JULY PICNIC. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/7 "2010-01-15T03:18:18Z")
Bloody hell, got beaten to the **Fourth of July Picnic** quote. Ah well. (I get more of a father/son than lover vibe from the two. ) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/8 "2010-01-15T03:25:19Z")
Wolfe was sort of a father figure to Archie in the early books. As the quote above mentions, Archie was from Ohio (the Midwest). Living with Wolfe taught Archie about sophisticated living in general. Felix the professional chef trained his palate. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/9 "2010-01-15T03:56:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Ah, I think I’ve got the exact quote, now: > > From FOURTH OF JULY PICNIC. Thanks, Waldo. No idea how I missed that. Somebody’s killed in a tent, Wolfe wants to leave before the body is discovered, and Archie is somewhat more observant of the law, or at least Cramer’s ire… ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/10 "2010-01-15T04:16:36Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Bloody hell, got beaten to the **Fourth of July Picnic** quote. Ah well. > > (I get more of a father/son than lover vibe from the two. ) I read somewhere (and I’m damned if I can remember where) that someone theorized that Archie is actually Nero’s son. I believe part of the theory was based on a line from one of the books, but again I can’t remember what it is. I need to finish unpacking my library so I can re-read my Nero Wolfe collection (along with my Travis McGee collection, and my …well, you get the idea.) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/11 "2010-01-15T14:12:37Z")
In the canon, there is no direct evidence but lots of conflicting comments about Archie’s origins. This leads William S Baring-Gould, in _Nero Wolfe of West Thirty-Fifth Street_ to speculate that Archie is Wolfe’s nephew: the assumption is that Wolfe and Marko Vukcic were fraternal twins, and Vukcic is known to have been a womanizer. Baring-Gould says: > [@](#): > > This hypothesis would explain much of the carefully clouded relationship between Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin. For a relationship of some kind almost certainly exists. > In _A Right to Die_, Paul Whipple, quoting his wife, says to Wolfe, “I wish he [Wolfe] was a Negro.” Wolfe grunted and said, “If I were, Mr Goodwin would have to be one too.” > … > How sly, how in character, then, becomes Wolfe’s remark to Archie in _The Red Box_: “Did you know that I am an uncle, Archie?” ---
**Author:** ![KittenKat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kittenkat/32/306_2.png) [@KittenKat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KittenKat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/12 "2010-01-15T15:35:12Z")
Following up on Dex’s comments about conflicting statements on Archie’s origins, the real answer is that there is no definitive answer as to how Archie came to work for Wolfe. The truth is, Rex Stout did not give a hang for continuity, and either his editors didn’t care either or they couldn’t prevail upon Stout to be more consistent. The quote that was posted from **Fourth of July Picnic** was the answer f_or that story_. If the question had been relevant to another story, the answer might have been the same, or it might have been something different, depending on the needs of the story or Stout’s mood; there is no way to know. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/13 "2010-01-15T16:11:12Z")
**Dex** , that’s what I was thinking of. I have no idea why my mind changed the relationship from father-son to uncle-nephew. I’m also reminded that I don’t think I’ve ever gotten around to picking up Baring-Gould’s book on Nero Wolfe (I do have his two-volume Sherlock Holmes set); I’ll have to check Bookfinder one of these days. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/14 "2010-01-15T16:32:06Z")
Archie quit several times. He always came back. Even in the book, _In the Best Families_, where Nero disappears for several months to diet and infiltrate Zeck’s organization. Archie started his own agency, and was successful at it. He gave it up to return to Wolfe. There had to be some kind of special bond for Archie to stick with Wolfe. If he was a nephew that would explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/15 "2010-01-15T19:53:46Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > In the canon, there is no direct evidence but lots of conflicting comments about Archie’s origins. This leads William S Baring-Gould, in _Nero Wolfe of West Thirty-Fifth Street_ to speculate that Archie is Wolfe’s nephew: the assumption is that Wolfe and Marko Vukcic were fraternal twins, and Vukcic is known to have been a womanizer. Baring-Gould says: I’ve always had the distinct impression that Wolfe himself was a womanizer, too, in his younger days. My theory is that he was Brung Low By A Dame at least once, and probably several times, and that’s why he avoids them at all costs when the books were written. I think that Stout had Wolfe love yellow and hate purple simply to give him a few characteristics. I saw A&E’s Wolfe shows before I got into the books, and then saw them again after I’d read the books. I was impressed by the attention to detail in the shows, such as Wolfe’s yellow shirts. I’ve read some of Stout’s other stories, and frankly, I don’t think that much of them. The characters seem unrealistic, and the stories just aren’t that interesting. Wolfe and Archie were Stout’s best characters, and I’m sorry that I’ve read all of the Wolfe stories. I re-read them now and again, but it’s not the same as having a new story to explore. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/16 "2010-01-15T21:48:57Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’ve always had the distinct impression that Wolfe himself was a womanizer… Are you saying that Wolfe was a wolf? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/17 "2010-01-15T21:57:38Z")
> [@](#): > > My theory is that he was Brung Low By A Dame at least once, and probably several times, and that’s why he avoids them at all costs when the books were written. Montenegran dames, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/18 "2010-01-15T22:01:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > Montenegran dames, no doubt. Having fought on both sides in World War I, there is no telling. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/19 "2010-01-15T22:22:46Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’ve always had the distinct impression that Wolfe himself was a womanizer, too, in his younger days. My theory is that he was Brung Low By A Dame at least once, and probably several times, and that’s why he avoids them at all costs when the books were written. That’s pretty strongly implied (well, not the womanizer part, but the “brung low” part) in the corpus. In _Over My Dead Body_, he responds to an FBI agent’s question about whether he was married with: > [@Nero Wolfe](#): > > No. Married? No. That was what… An elaboration that is tantalizing in its vagueness. Later on in that same book, he tells Archie, > [@Nero Wolfe](#): > > I have skedaddled, physically, once in my life, from one person, and that was a Montenegrin woman. It was a long time ago, but my nerves remember it. (Some people also like to interpret Wolfe’s tale of being poisoned by a woman who was testing some lethal drug as a potential cure for her husband’s headaches as an indication that he was, actually the woman’s husband. But I’m not convinced.) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021/20 "2010-01-16T00:03:04Z")
My point is that Wolfe doesn’t actually dislike women, but rather is very weak about them, and he (now) knows this. My theory is that when he was young, he sowed his wild oats, but didn’t like the harvest (except possibly for Archie, if Archie is his natural son). Wolfe has learned that this is a very nearly fatal weakness, and so he takes steps to avoid women whenever he can, just as he won’t let anyone but Archie drive him. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-nero-wolfe-come-to-hire-archie/525021.md?page=2)