# How did 'not to mention' end up meaning 'mention'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 17, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776 "2013-07-17T18:31:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/1 "2013-07-17T18:31:44Z")
It’s oxymoronic, not to mention confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/2 "2013-07-17T18:40:24Z")
Did it ever not mean ‘mention’? It’s an idiomatic phrase that means the subsequent item is so obviously it hardly needs pointing out, but I’m going to do it anyway just to make sure we’re all on the same page. It’s the same sort of idea as let alone. I’ve never eaten a vegetable, let alone a cucumber! The denial of the first set implies a denial of the subset, but I say it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/3 "2013-07-17T18:40:59Z")
It adds emphasis to the first part of the sentence. In your OP, the “not to mention” clause emphasizes that “it’s oxymoronic” is enough reason to question the phrasing. You don’t even need to mention other reasons like “confusing”. It’s kind of a different way of saying “…and there are other reasons including [xxx].” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/4 "2013-07-17T21:54:40Z")
It’s understood as "this, that, and the other [_and those are sufficient to make my point if I were_] **not to mention** this also [_which would make my point even more strongly_]. What’s really fun is rhetorical preterition, where one flatly states he won’t say something, and in doing so says it: “_I won’t even mention that my opponent buggers kittens._” ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/5 "2013-07-18T02:12:16Z")
_Needless to say,_ this will be an interesting thread! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/6 "2013-07-18T02:25:43Z")
Far be it from me to say otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/7 "2013-07-18T02:54:12Z")
It goes without saying that this will continue. **GaryT** , I didn’t realize those were two different constructs. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/8 "2013-07-18T04:58:09Z")
Details are here: [Apophasis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophasis) ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/9 "2013-07-20T04:05:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Far be it from me to say otherwise. Who am I to wonder if we aren’t thinking alike here? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/10 "2013-07-20T04:09:23Z")
No disrespect, but I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/11 "2013-07-20T04:42:24Z")
Same way “begs the question” became “prompts the question”. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/12 "2013-07-20T10:24:11Z")
The answer should be all but obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/13 "2013-07-20T11:16:09Z")
Hah! I could care less. Or maybe I couldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/14 "2013-07-20T12:59:30Z")
It’s sense is, “I’ve mentioned A, B, and C as examples, and didn’t even include D, which should be obvious, but I’ll list it to make sure.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/15 "2013-07-20T13:03:54Z")
Our next poster needs no introduction. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/16 "2013-07-20T13:10:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Our next poster needs no introduction. I’m not sure I’d say that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/17 "2013-07-20T15:43:34Z")
It would be oxymoronic, whether you mention confusing or not. So you did not need to mention confusing to validate your assertion that it is oxymoronic. You could mention confusing if you wised to but that would not negate the fact that it is oxymoronic without the mention of confusing, which you chose to do in order to further buttress your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/18 "2013-07-20T16:27:51Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > …I’ve never eaten a vegetable, let alone a cucumber! … Not to be a stickler, **Inner Stickler** , but a cucumber is a fruit, not a vegetable. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/19 "2013-07-20T22:33:00Z")
It’s kinda similar to saying two positives in a row to mean a negative. > [@Oly](#): > > Not to be a stickler, **Inner Stickler** , but a cucumber is a fruit, not a vegetable. Yeah, right. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776/20 "2013-07-20T22:48:13Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > Not to be a stickler, **Inner Stickler** , but a cucumber is a fruit, not a vegetable. If we’re nitpicking, it’s both. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-not-to-mention-end-up-meaning-mention/663776.md?page=2)