# How did prohibition get approved in the drunkest place on Earth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137 "2011-10-29T00:39:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/21 "2011-10-29T05:37:38Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Wisconsin specifically. We’re mostly descendants of beer swilling Germans. Even more so a century ago. At one time there were almost 200 active breweries statewide. How in the world did the 18th Amendment get ratified here? How did state assembly representatives and state senators not get the living shit beat out of them for voting for it? Help me understand. Politics, even in Wisconsin, aren’t always easily explainable. Wisconsin has a long tradition of progressivism, yet managed to also elect Joseph McCarthy and Scott Walker, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/22 "2011-10-29T05:43:25Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Sounds like good times. But if you’re going to cite that can you please…? Cite that?:rolleyes: > **[Historical Note on Temperance Reform in the Early 19th Century | Teach US...](https://www.teachushistory.org/second-great-awakening-age-reform/articles/historical-note-temperance-reform-early-19th-century)** > >  Jack Larkin, Chief Historian, OSVDrink was everywhere in early America. “Liquor at that time,” recalled the Massachusetts carpenter Elbridge Boyden, “was used as commonly as the food we ate.” Americans drank in enormous quantities. Their yearly... > [@Jack Larkin](#): > > Drink was everywhere in early America. “Liquor at that time,” recalled the Massachusetts carpenter Elbridge Boyden, “was used as commonly as the food we ate.” Americans drank in enormous quantities. Their yearly consumption at the time of the Revolution has been estimated at the equivalent of three-and-a-half gallons of pure, two-hundred proof alcohol for each person. After 1790 American men began to drink even more. By the late 1820s imbibing had risen to an all-time high of almost four gallons per capita. > **[The Way We Live Now: The (Agri)Cultural Contradictions of Obesity - Michael...](https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/the-way-we-live-now-the-agricultural-contradictions-of-obesity/)** > > Sometimes even complicated social problems turn out to be simpler than they look. Take America's "obesity epidemic," arguably the most serious public-health problem facing the country. Three of every five Americans are now overweight, and some... > [@Michael Pollan](#): > > Corn whiskey, suddenly superabundant and cheap, was the drink of choice, and in the 1820′s the typical American man was putting away half a pint of the stuff every day. That works out to more than five gallons of spirits a year for every American. The figure today is less than a gallon. Those are the only online sources I could find on short notice. They’re pretty consistent with the dead tree books I’ve read on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/23 "2011-10-29T07:58:08Z")
The background to Prohibition makes interesting study, but the very extremely edited highlights seem to be that everyone thought the law wouldn’t apply to them- just those “other” people (whoever they were). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/24 "2011-10-29T14:04:00Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > How did prohibition get approved in the drunkest place on Earth? The backers craftily arranged a special Saturday morning floor vote. Everybody was hung over. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/25 "2011-10-29T14:05:51Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > [Historical Note on Temperance Reform in the Early 19th Century | Teach US History](http://www.teachushistory.org/second-great-awakening-age-reform/articles/historical-note-temperance-reform-early-19th-century) > > [The Way We Live Now: The (Agri)Cultural Contradictions of Obesity - Michael Pollan](http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/the-way-we-live-now-the-agricultural-contradictions-of-obesity/) > > Those are the only online sources I could find on short notice. They’re pretty consistent with the dead tree books I’ve read on the subject. On the recommended documentary of Prohibition on PBS it was noticed that the rate of consumption was much higher than today, one important reason why this problem was ignored early was that the beverage of choice was low alcohol beer, and thanks to mundane reasons like having to boil the water to make it, it was then a healthy choice too. Yes, it sounds strange, but before the establishment of the germ theory of disease traditional practices then recommended alcoholic drinks instead of plain water in many locations, but this became a problem when hard liquor like whiskey became more available and replaced the traditional beer for many. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/26 "2011-10-29T15:36:54Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > I’ll second or third the recommendation to watch the recent Ken Burns PBS series on Prohibition. Well worth the time. > > One quick thing to understand: at the time the amendment was circulating for approval, many, if not most, people believed that the actual laws that Congress would pass if the amendment was ratified would still allow beer and wine. It was hard liquor and saloons that voters thought were to be banned. The Volstead Act was a surprise for a lot of folks. Yeah, I remember that part. The mentality was that beer and wine for home consumption would still be ok, it would be hard liquor and saloons that were banned. When they banned everything with 0.5% alcohol or higher it came as a shock. The interesting thing I have heard is that issue of prohibition was like gay marriage back then, you could tell a lot about a persons political views by how they voted on it. And prohibition brought divergent groups together. The KKK together with marxists as an example (the KKK seemed to think alcohol was contaminating, marxists seemed to think alcohol was a plot to subdue and distract the working class from fighting against their capitalist overlords). Supposedly the progressive movement mainly supported prohibition because they wanted women to ally with their movement, and they knew women would support prohibition since women saw the worst effects of alcohol abuse (spousal rape, child abuse, spousal abuse). Either way, people had different motives for banning alcohol. Some beverage groups wanted to eliminate the competition. Marxists wanted people to stop using alcohol to distract from class conflict. Women wanted to stop abusive drunken husbands. The KKK wanted a purified society. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/27 "2011-10-29T16:01:28Z")
It’s my understanding that some of the prohibition movement was driven by anti-German sentiment stemming from World War I. There were big German breweries in many major cities and it was felt that these symbols of German culture should be discouraged. This is the same reason they tried to call sauerkraut “liberty cabbage”. It is interesting that German-American is the largest self-identified ethnic group in the US, yet few signs of German culture remain. Well into the 1800s there were German-speaking enclaves not only in the upper Midwest and Pennsylvania, but even in western Virginia, Texas and other places. It’s almost all gone. Spaghetti, tacos, sushi, are all practically American foods by assimilation now, but it’s hard to think of any German foods. Frankfurters? Are those even really German? Ethnic cleansing is far too strong a word but it was akin to that. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/28 "2011-10-29T16:36:04Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > It is interesting that German-American is the largest self-identified ethnic group in the US, yet few signs of German culture remain. Well into the 1800s there were German-speaking enclaves not only in the upper Midwest and Pennsylvania, but even in western Virginia, Texas and other places. It’s almost all gone. Spaghetti, tacos, sushi, are all practically American foods by assimilation now, but it’s hard to think of any German foods. Frankfurters? Are those even really German? Ethnic cleansing is far too strong a word but it was akin to that. Umm, have you never eaten a bratwurst (or any of a score of other types of German sausage and ccured meats) in an non-German area? Or perhaps a breaded pork cutlet? Various styles of German beer for that matter? Eaten a torte or a slice of pumpernickel? Or are you saying the German foods have assimilated so much that they are now American? ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/29 "2011-10-29T16:43:58Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > It is interesting that German-American is the largest self-identified ethnic group in the US, yet few signs of German culture remain. Well into the 1800s there were German-speaking enclaves not only in the upper Midwest and Pennsylvania, but even in western Virginia, Texas and other places. It’s almost all gone. Spaghetti, tacos, sushi, are all practically American foods by assimilation now, but it’s hard to think of any German foods. Frankfurters? Are those even really German? Ethnic cleansing is far too strong a word but it was akin to that. It’s hiding in plain sight. Many of the foods at your typical American church potluck would be German (hamburgers, hot dogs, potato salad, apple pie…) As for prohibition, many of those in Wisconsin would also have been Lutherans with strong sympathy for religious opposition to alcohol. There are still dry counties in the South. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/30 "2011-10-29T16:44:41Z")
Also, I understand that the Germans have some sort of festival that they traditionally hold in October. Can’t quite remember the name off the top of my head… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/31 "2011-10-29T16:44:47Z")
I misread the title line as “How did prostitution get approved in the drunkest place on Earth?” And I was thinking “Probably pretty easily.” ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/32 "2011-10-29T17:12:04Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I know it’s hard to gauge mindset from almost 100 years ago. Like trying to figure out WTF people were thinking 200 years ago about slavery being okay. > > Wisconsin specifically. We’re mostly descendants of beer swilling Germans. Even more so a century ago. At one time there were almost 200 active breweries statewide. How in the world did the 18th Amendment get ratified here? How did state assembly representatives and state senators not get the living shit beat out of them for voting for it? Help me understand. Women got the right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/33 "2011-10-29T18:13:18Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Women got the right to vote. I heard a discussion of that on NPR, I think it was, a while ago. The prohibitionists and suffragettes marched hand-in-hand, in fact there was considerable overlap and their concerns were perceived as related. For instance, in those days a husband legally controlled all the family property, including anything his wife brought to the marriage or earned. So, if a woman found herself married to an alcoholic, he could drink up all her property and earnings and there was nothing she could do about it – short of divorce, which was widely considered deeply immoral regardless of grounds, and left a divorced woman with limited prospects in life. Suffragists’ anger over the misogynistic elements in the law was bound up with the anger of Progressive-Era reformers-in-general at all kinds of ugly-sloppy things in life. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/34 "2011-10-29T18:23:51Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Also, I understand that the Germans have some sort of festival that they traditionally hold in October. Can’t quite remember the name off the top of my head… Me neither, but it translates as “The Feast of Pig Screams.” ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/35 "2011-10-29T19:19:53Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > Now that’s what I call the epitome of _progressive_ thinking. Of course, back then the progressives preached in churches and not in the _academia_ > > Notice that nobody was stopping these prohibitionists from pushing the blue laws down the throat of their particular municipalities or even States. But no, such people do not stop until they have imposed their evil rule on everybody in the country. They are too _concerned_ with their BS du jour to care about trampling other people’s rights. It was Obama’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/36 "2011-10-29T21:25:56Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Umm, have you never eaten a bratwurst (or any of a score of other types of German sausage and ccured meats) in an non-German area? Or perhaps a breaded pork cutlet? Various styles of German beer for that matter? Eaten a torte or a slice of pumpernickel? Or are you saying the German foods have assimilated so much that they are now American? No, those are definitely German foods, as opposed to hamburgers and “frankfurters” (no German counterparts despite the names.) But consider how much Italian sausage, salami and pepperoni is eaten compared to bratwurst and other German sausages. Or how much Italian bread in its many forms (pizza) is eaten compared to pumpernickel. We have Domino’s and Olive Garden but no House of Hasenpfeffer. Maybe Auntie Anne’s Pretzels could be considered German. “Wienerschnitzel” hot dog joints don’t count! Based on the food, you’d think there were way more Italian-Americans than German-Americans, but in reality there are three times as many German-Americans. Maybe the Italian food is just better. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/37 "2011-10-29T22:02:08Z")
Another element in the push towards prohibition were industrial/labor concerns - the industrialists viewing enforced sobriety as a boon to productivity and plant safety. Henry Ford was had a whole department dedicated to checking in on his workers’ “morals” (actually an excuse to check into whether they were trying to organize, but still, not meeting moral standards meant lower pay and evential dismissal), including drinking habits. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/38 "2011-10-30T00:04:32Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Maybe the Italian food is just better. Or maybe Italians were simply considered foreign for longer than Germans were, and so their food constitutes a distinct cuisine. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/39 "2011-10-30T00:07:41Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Wisconsin specifically. We’re mostly descendants of beer swilling Germans. Even more so a century ago. At one time there were almost 200 active breweries statewide. How in the world did the 18th Amendment get ratified here? How did state assembly representatives and state senators not get the living shit beat out of them for voting for it? Help me understand. One of the big points of prohibition was to stick it to the German immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137/40 "2011-10-30T00:27:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I think it very likely that in a hundred years people will find the War on Drugs equally stupid, but I can quite understand why people who’ve seen what heroin or cocaine can do to people would approve of laws banning them. We haven’t quite learned the lessons that the 18th has taught us. > [@pkbites](#): > > Perhaps I and everyone else can stop asking questions on these boards and just “look it up”. I guess they can can stop paying the bills here and close this web site up up then. Thanks. 🙂 It’s a very good documentary that answers most, if not all, of your questions. Maybe the best ever done on this topic. It’s a complex subject that isn’t easily answered in a message board post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-prohibition-get-approved-in-the-drunkest-place-on-earth/601137.md?page=3)