# How did Squat & Zilch become synonyms for nothing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283 "2011-11-17T23:22:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/1 "2011-11-17T23:22:58Z")
Can’t pay you squat was a common expression when I grew up. Meaning nothing. The big zero. 😉 Normally squat refers to a crouching position like you squat down to crap. Or you do squats in exercise. How did it become a synonym for zero? Where did zilch come from? Especially as a synonym for zero? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/2 "2011-11-18T00:06:33Z")
> **[Zilch Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/zilch)** > > Zilch definition, zero; nothing: The search came up with zilch. See more. Origin: 1965–70, Americanism ; perhaps continuous with earlier zilch snafu, Mr. Zilch a character in Ballyhoo, a humor magazine first published in 1931; for sense compare zip3 zilch “nothing,” 1966, from earlier sense of “meaningless speech” (1960), originally Mr. Zilch, (1931) comic character in the magazine “Ballyhoo.” Perhaps from U.S. college slang (early 1900s) Joe Zilsch “an insignificant person.” Probably a nonsense syllable, but Zilch is an actual Ger. surname of Slavic EXPAND ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/3 "2011-11-18T00:10:09Z")
> **[Doodly-squat Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/doodly-squat)** > > Doodly-squat definition, variant of diddly-squat. See more. doodly-squat. Origin: probably euphemistic variant of doodly-shit, diddlyshit; see doodle1 , diddle2 , -y2 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/4 "2011-11-18T00:21:19Z")
:smack: totally forgot it used to be doodly-squat. We always shortened it to just squat. thanks Peter. 😉 There was always a dismissive quality to squat. How much is my help worth? I can’t pay you squat. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/5 "2011-11-18T02:58:07Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/doodly-squat](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/doodly-squat) > > doodly-squat. > > Origin: > probably euphemistic variant of doodly-shit, diddlyshit; see doodle1 , diddle2 , -y2 Yeah that’s the way I remember it, diddlyshit \> diddlysquat\> squat ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/6 "2011-11-18T03:32:38Z")
I guess squatter came from the same etymology? Someone who lives somewhere illegally without paying. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/7 "2011-11-18T21:33:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I guess squatter came from the same etymology? > > Someone who lives somewhere illegally without paying. No. [From here](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=squatter&searchmode=none): > [@](#): > > squatter > “settler who occupies land without legal title,” 1788, agent noun from squat (v.); in reference to paupers or homeless people in uninhabited buildings, it is recorded from 1880. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/8 "2011-11-18T21:35:44Z")
Etymonline also has a slightly different etymology on [squat](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=squat&searchmode=none), meaning nothing: > [@](#): > > Slang noun sense of “nothing at all” first attested 1934, probably suggestive of squatting to defecate. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-squat-zilch-become-synonyms-for-nothing/603283/9 "2011-11-19T12:09:54Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Etymonline also has a slightly different etymology on [squat](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=squat&searchmode=none), meaning nothing: Those could connect, as a previous post alleges that _squat_ replaced _shit_ in _doodly-shit_. I personally always assumed that squatters were so called because they were literally squatting on the land, making it difficult to take. So thanks for the enlightenment, guys.