# How did the bloody glove get to OJ's house? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139 "2014-04-15T03:47:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/41 "2014-04-15T17:52:21Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > for a frame to work, the frame has to fit. > At the time the glove was found, nobody knew exactly where OJ was. You would look pretty silly building a frame to frame OJ, if it turned out he was out of the country filming a movie for example. This, so much. I haven’t been up on the serial killer theory much lately, and I didn’t realize that OJ was now implicated as a conspirator. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/42 "2014-04-15T17:58:18Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Yes…for several reasons. > > [ol] > [li] **Believing in police corruption means that most people would have address the fact that the justice system is flawed** - That might mean that wrongful executions have taken place,that innocents are currently serving time for crimes that they didn’t commit and that criminals,especially murderers,are walking the streets free to commit crimes and to kill again. That’s high level cognitive dissonance and most people avoid that like the plague.[/li][li] **It would mean that people would have to address their racial biases and they are loath to do that** - Let’s face it: If Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman had been Black, this case would have barely been a blip on the collective radar. Yes, OJ’s role in it would have prevented it from being in the back pages after the first few days. But it would have never received the levels of notoriety that did if the assailant wasn’t Black and the victims weren’t White. Most people don’t want to face that fact.[/li][li] **If the police are willing to frame the wealthy, why wouldn’t they do the same to anyone else?** - The police are largely unregulated in our society. If people thought that they couldn’t trust them (and really, unless they give you a reason to do so, you can’t) then how do you think that most of them would sleep at night? Not much point in having guardians who have limited interest in “guarding” you.[/li][/ol] > > Police corruption isn’t a fantasy; it’s an expensive reality. > > To presume that it doesn’t exist simply because you think that it doesn’t, is poor critical thinking. To also presume that it didn’t have a role in a matter because you can’t “see” that role is even worse critical thinking. Why do you refuse to discuss the technicalities of this particular supposed frame-up in lieu of just addressing the much more general “Police were corrupt, therefore he was framed!” schtick. Tell us why the police would want to frame a high-profile who had access to high-priced attorneys when it would be much easier(and safer) to just let the case go through normal channels, then tell us how this supposed frame-up worked in the short amount of time they had to supposedly put it together. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/43 "2014-04-15T18:16:19Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Yes…for several reasons. > > … Oh, fucking bullshit. You’ll find very few people on this board who are not aware of the extent of racism and corruption in the LAPD, particularly in the '90s. That doesn’t preclude someone from recognizing that your theory is \*extraordinarily \*unlikely on multiple levels. People aren’t rejecting your narrative out of blindness to the institutionalized racism in American society. They’re rejecting it because it’s nonsense that doesn’t pass even the slightest critical investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/44 "2014-04-15T18:20:16Z")
I’m not saying the police aren’t ever corrupt, or racist or assholes, I’m saying that in this particular situation, planting the glove is inhumanly bizarre. It is the night of the murder, you are tasked with going over to the famous Movie Star/Hall of Fame RB/TV Pitchman in furthering the investigation of the brutal murder of his ex-wife. So, you steal evidence to bring with you specifically to frame this man for the murder. A man, mind you, who routinely is away from home on business and lives a highly visible life where much of his activity is known to others. This isn’t like dropping a little baggie of dope in some loser’s car. It’s not even like “enhancing” the evidence you already have that points to OJ, it’s making up the frame job with nothing to support the idea that OJ was within 1,000 miles of the crime scene. The guy is literally putting his career on the line in order to frame OJ, with an exceptionally high chance of getting caught. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/45 "2014-04-15T18:59:21Z")
The core of the alternate defense seems to boil down to “OJ could not possibly have been stupid.” Not convincing, especially given his later behavior for which he was convicted and jailed - stupid and arrogant beyond belief. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/46 "2014-04-15T19:53:25Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It is the night of the murder, you are tasked with going over to the famous Movie Star/Hall of Fame RB/TV Pitchman in furthering the investigation of the brutal murder of his ex-wife. So, you steal evidence to bring with you specifically to frame this man for the murder. A man, mind you, who routinely is away from home on business and lives a highly visible life where much of his activity is known to others. I think you are greatly overstating the public visibility of OJ Simpson at that time while underestimating the confidence a seasoned police detective would have that OJ was guilty given the statistical likelihood of an abusive ex-husband murdering his ex-wife during a crime of passion. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This isn’t like dropping a little baggie of dope in some loser’s car. It’s not even like “enhancing” the evidence you already have that points to OJ, it’s making up the frame job with nothing to support the idea that OJ was within 1,000 miles of the crime scene. Because they were (likely correctly) assuming OJ did it, so the chance of him being 1000 miles away was basically zero. The real issue though is that Furman’s own testimony, even when taken at face value, makes little sense. He claims he first went to OJ’s house to inform him of his ex-wife’s murder and to make sure OJ could make arrangements for their kids. Then sees a small blood stain in OJ’s car. So he then decides to jump the gate to OJ’s house because he feared for OJ’s safety. It was only after trespassing that he finds the bloody glove that conveniently matches the other glove left at the crime scene. Do you really think the minute likelihood that a crazed maniac would kill two people, then go across town to kill one of his victims’ ex-husband, who also happens to be a famous ex-football player, represented the exigent circumstances necessary to trespass at OJ’s house just to make sure he was okay? Does that make logical sense to you, or is it more likely that they thought he was guilty, and wanted to snoop around in order to find some evidence of his guilt? > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The guy is literally putting his career on the line in order to frame OJ, with an exceptionally high chance of getting caught. All things with Fuhrman had done multiple times at that point. He admitted on tape to framing people, planting evidence, wanting to kill a guy and bragging he would get away with it. He insulted superiors, and admitting to being a racist. Why do you think he is above framing OJ? This is a guy who said the following on [tape](http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Info/fuhrman.html): > [@](#): > > "Recidivism is unbelievable. There’s a guy walking around right now who has killed two policemen, eyewitnesses[sic] by their partners who were wounded. So he’s shot 4 policemen. He hacked a girl to death with a machete. So that’s 5 people. He did 8 years in prison. He’s walking around. He goes to U.C.L.A. > > Q: What’s he doing at U.C.L.A.? > > A: Taking some courses? Now you want me to tell you why he’s alive? > > Q: Because we didn’t kill him. > > A: No, if I would have arrested the son of a bitch I would have killed him. If I ever see the son of a bitch and we’re alone, I would kill him. > > Q: How can you get away with that. > > A: **If there’s nobody except him and me, dead men tell no tales. See, he killed two policemen. I have an obligation if I ever have the opportunity, I should kill him. And that’s all there is to it.** > > Q: Say you were working with a partner who saw you do that. > > A: Can’t do that. You gotta have a partner that’s like your brother." Why should anyone trust this guy? Honestly, I don’t think OJ is innocent, but this idea that there is NO WAY the police tried to frame him seems pretty naive given the (fortuitous) glimpse we got into the character of some of the detectives. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/47 "2014-04-15T19:56:57Z")
Good heavens this could be the Oj groups in USENET damn near 20 years ago. “OJ innocent because police corruption and racism exist therefore frame-job!” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/48 "2014-04-15T20:33:22Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Because they were (likely correctly) assuming OJ did it, so the chance of him being 1000 miles away was basically zero. Huh? Are you actually saying that the chance of OJ being out of town on the night of the murder was basically zero, because Fuhrman assumed he was guilty? OJ routinely traveled out of town on business, was traveling out of town on business that very night. Fuhrman’s assumptions are completely irrelevant to OJ’s travel schedule, and Fuhrman has absolutely no knowledge of his schedule. > [@](#): > > The real issue though is that Furman’s own testimony, even when taken at face value, makes little sense. He claims he first went to OJ’s house to inform him of his ex-wife’s murder and to make sure OJ could make arrangements for their kids. This doesn’t make sense? How does this not make sense, would the police NOT inform him of his wife’s murder and ensure the kids are taken care of? > [@](#): > > Then sees a small blood stain in OJ’s car. This doesn’t make sense either? > [@](#): > > So he then decides to jump the gate to OJ’s house because he feared for OJ’s safety. What doesn’t make sense about this? OJ is kidnapped at knife point brought home to be robbed and murdered and Fuhrman is supposed to ignore every scrap of evidence that something bad might have happened? > [@](#): > > It was only after trespassing that he finds the bloody glove that conveniently matches the other glove left at the crime scene. You’re right, after seeing a bloody car in OJ’s driveway, I would NOT expect the detective to take a look around the property. > [@](#): > > Do you really think the minute likelihood that a crazed maniac would kill two people, then go across town to kill one of his victims’ ex-husband, who also happens to be a famous ex-football player, represented the exigent circumstances necessary to trespass at OJ’s house just to make sure he was okay? Does that make logical sense to you, or is it more likely that they thought he was guilty, and wanted to snoop around in order to find some evidence of his guilt? Both possibilities make light years more sense than “they thought he was guilty, and wanted to trespass on his property to plant evidence stolen from the crime scene.” ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/49 "2014-04-15T21:06:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Huh? > > Are you actually saying that the chance of OJ being out of town on the night of the murder was basically zero, because Fuhrman assumed he was guilty? I am saying in any case where an abused woman is killed, the likelihood her abusive ex-husband did it is extremely high. The chance that a ex in any case has a clear, rock solid alibi is vanishingly small, so if a detective wanted to plant evidence to strengthen their case, the chances of them being wrong, or being caught, are pretty slim. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > OJ routinely traveled out of town on business, was traveling out of town on business that very night. Fuhrman’s assumptions are completely irrelevant to OJ’s travel schedule, and Fuhrman has absolutely no knowledge of his schedule. This makes no sense. I think we can agree OJ probably did it. Given that he in fact murdered them despite his travel plans says a lot, and it speaks to the stats being right in this case. Fuhrman didn’t need to worry about the off chance that OJ didn’t do it, or that he would be out of town because Fuhrman believed (correctly) that he did do it. Fuhrman doesn’t think about being wrong when planting evidence in this case any more than he would in another case. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This doesn’t make sense? Not really. This guy, who is by most accounts a dishonest scumbag, is so worried about OJ that he needs to hop a fence to make sure he is okay? Why wouldn’t he be okay? What are the chances that someone would murder two people in different places who dislike one another? Clearly a stranger would have no way to connect the two of them. Who else would hate both OJ and Nicole so much that they would decide one night to off them both with a knife? > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You’re right, after seeing a bloody car in OJ’s driveway, I would NOT expect the detective to take a look around the property. First, IIRC, there was a _small_ blood stain in the car. Certainly not something that indicates a struggle or a violent incident. Second, why are they looking in the car if they don’t suspect OJ had anything to do with the murder? > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Both possibilities make light years more sense than “they thought he was guilty, and wanted to trespass on his property to plant evidence stolen from the crime scene.” Why? For a guy who admits on tape that he would be obligated to kill a man in cold blood, and is confident his partner would not rat him out, I don’t know why you think planting evidence on a guilty guy would faze him. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/50 "2014-04-15T21:41:13Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > the real killer put it there to frame him, obviously A one-armed man in the pay of Budget Rent-A-Car did it in order to keep Simpson from trumping the with his portrayal of an athletic Avis employee in the famous line of commercials. > [@Habeed](#): > > This seems entirely believable. The other cops may not have been looking for gloves lying about, they were probably too busy staring at the bloody corpse. I could easily see Fuhrman being able to quietly bag up a glove (he is a detective…) without anyone really making note of it. > > It’s entirely possible that 1 or 2 of those cops, instead of 12, did see him commit the crime. Those cops kept their mouths shut. The motive here is unclear; what exactly was Fuhrman going to gain from this? Suggesting the he knew in advance what a media circus the trial would become is giving him far too much credit. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Is it really that hard for some people to believe that the police framed him? Obviously not, since he was acquitted. That the facts of the case do not support such speculation, on the other hand, is pretty obvious to any functionally intelligent person who has bothered to evaluate the case records. The defense was a complete manufacturing of a vast conspiracy from supposed inconsistencies that are readily explained by more prosaic hypotheses which are easily verified. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/51 "2014-04-15T22:02:21Z")
If OJ was framed by a racist LAPD, why did the same police department handle him with such respect when they arrested him in 1989 for beating the same woman he later killed? Not to mention that OJ’s blood was found at the crime scene several hours before any blood samples were taken from him. OJ was stalking his ex-wife. He thought Ron Goldman was her lover, broke in, and killed them both. He then ran away and hoped to escape because he knew he was traveling on business later, and hoped to use that as an alibi. He thought he could get away with it because he is an egotistical shit head like most murderers are. Read his farewell note - > [@](#): > > To whom it may concern: First, everyone understand I have nothing to do with Nicole’s murder. I loved her, always have and always will. If we had a problem, it’s because I loved her so much. Recently, we came to the understanding that for now we were not right for each other, at least for now. Despite our love we were different, and that’s why we mutually agreed to go our separate ways. It was tough splitting for a second time, but we both knew it was for the best. Inside I had no doubt that in the future, we would be close as friends or more. Unlike what has been written in the press, Nicole and I had a great relationship for most of our lives together, Like all long-term relationships, we had a few downs and ups. I took the heat New Year’s 1989 because that’s what I was supposed to do. I did not plead no contest for any other reason but to protect our privacy and was advised it would end the press hype. I don’t want to belabor knocking the press, but I can’t believe what is being said. Most of it is totally made up. I know you have a job to do, but as a last wish, please, please, please, leave my children in peace. Their lives will be tough enough. I want to send my love and thanks to all my friends. I’m sorry I can’t name every one of you, especially A.C. man, thanks for being in my life. The support and friendship I received from so many: Wayne Hughes, Lewis Markes, Frank Olson, Mark Packer, Bender, Bobby Kardashian. I wish we had spent more time together in recent years. My golfing buddies, Hoss, Alan Austin, Mike, Craig, Bender, Wyler, Sandy, Jay, Donnie, thanks for the fun. All my teammates over the years, Reggie, you were the soul of my pro career. Ahmad, I never stopped being proud of you. Marcus, You’ve got a great lady in Catherine, don’t mess it up. Bobby Chandler, thanks for always being there. Skip and Kathy, I love you guys, without you I never would have made it through this far. Marguerite, thanks for the early years. We had some fun. Paula, what can I say? You are special. I’m sorry we’re not going to have our chance. God brought you to me I now see. As I leave, you’ll be in my thoughts. I think of my life and feel I’ve done most of the right things. What the outcome, people will look and point. I can’t take that. I can’t subject my children to that. This way they can move on and go on with their lives. Please, if I’ve done anything worthwhile in my life. Let my kids live in peace from you (press). I’ve had a good life. I’m proud of how I lived. My mama taught me to do un to other. I treated people the way I wanted to be treated. I’ve always tried to be up and helpful so why is this happening? I’m sorry for the Goldman family. I know how much it hurts. Nicole and I had a good life together. All this press talk about a rocky relationship was no more than what every long-term relationship experiences. All her friends will confirm that I have been totally loving and understanding of what she’s been going through. At times I have felt like a battered husband or boyfriend but I loved her, make that clear to everyone. And I would take whatever it took to make it work. Don’t feel sorry for me. I’ve had a great life, great friends. Please think of the real O.J. and not this lost person. thanks for making my life special. I hope I helped yours. peace and love, O.J. Don’t you think that an innocent man framed by the police would mention something about it? [ul][li]Oswald acted alone[/li][li]OJ killed Ron and Nicole[/li][li]There is no Easter bunny.[/ul][/li]Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/52 "2014-04-15T23:47:13Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Ok… > > If you choose to ignore decades worth of evidence concerning police misconduct and corruption in favor or a narrative that falls apart when it’s looked at too closely, then that’s your right. Well, it’s decades of police misconduct versus millenniums of guys brutally killing their current or former wives. There’s nothing that extraordinary about the concept of Simpson killing Brown - it’s a pattern that’s played out millions of times over all of human history. Certainly before Simpson could be proved a murderer or the LAPD proved to have framed him, we’d need evidence. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/53 "2014-04-16T00:11:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, it’s decades of police misconduct versus millenniums of guys brutally killing their current or former wives. There’s nothing that extraordinary about the concept of Simpson killing Brown - it’s a pattern that’s played out millions of times over all of human history. > > Certainly before Simpson could be proved a murderer or the LAPD proved to have framed him, we’d need evidence. Thanks for taking what i said completely out of context. For the record… yet again… **I believe that OJ Simpson killed his wife and Ron Goldman**. I hope that is clear enough for even the dimmest of lights to understand. If someone doesn’t understand, please IM me and I’ll explain it to them further. Now that we have got that out of the way: I don’t believe that the LAPD as an entity tried to “frame” him. There was no need for the entire department to frame him as the evidence of his guilt would have been found had the case been investigated properly. It’s likely that spots of blood were missed in his home, in the limousine which took him to the airport and it is possible that had they done a better job, the clothing and knife that were used could have been found at/around LAX, in Chicago or somewhere along the route Simpson took. There’s also the fact that no one apparently had a motive to kill Nicole Brown or Ron Goldman, the fact that the murders were apparently not the prelude or the result of a robbery and Simpson’s alibi for the time period in question in suspect. And there’s the fact that Simpson’s self-professed crusade to find the “real killers” faded rapidly after his acquittal. What I have a problem with is the fact that the only piece of evidence found was the mate of a glove which was found at the crime scene. There was no other evidence found around or near the glove (say clothing fibers, Bruno Magli shoe prints ( the type allegedly worn by Simpson during the murders), vegetative matter with blood found inside the home which compared to that of where the glove was found,etc) that stated that the glove was where it was “found” when it was found there. If Mark Fuhrman, the detective who discovered the glove, had admitted that he had planted it, the case would have collapsed. Rather than allowing a man that they believed to be guilty to walk away, people involved in prosecuting the matter simply subsumed the found glove into the larger narrative and hoped that it wouldn’t distract from the other evidence and testimony. **It would be nice if people actually read what I wrote earlier instead of attempting to subvert it into my claiming that there some “conspiracy” by the LAPD to frame Simpson. I never said that, nor do I believe that.** ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/54 "2014-04-16T00:25:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oh, fucking bullshit. You’ll find very few people on this board who are not aware of the extent of racism and corruption in the LAPD, particularly in the '90s. That doesn’t preclude someone from recognizing that your theory is \*extraordinarily \*unlikely on multiple levels. People aren’t rejecting your narrative out of blindness to the institutionalized racism in American society. They’re rejecting it because it’s nonsense that doesn’t pass even the slightest critical investigation. I’m sorry, perhaps I was assuming that the critical thinking was a prerequisite for posting to this board. My mistake. “Extraordinarily unlikely” how exactly? Fuhrman picks up the glove. Fuhrman takes it Simpson’s house. Fuhrman drops the glove. Fuhrmans claims to have found it. What part of that narrative is “extraordinarily unlikely?” If anyone had admitted that Fuhrman planted the glove, the case would have collapsed as it would called into question ALL of the evidence presented. If you remember at that time there were/was: 1. No eyewitnesses 2. No confession 3. A rather specious motive 4. No murder weapon found 5. A relatively paltry amount of forensic evidence found considering the brutality of the murders. This would have been a difficult case even without the glove. Had the glove been called into question, the entire house of cards would have collapsed and the case would have either been dismissed or Simpson would have been acquitted anyway. Fuhrman simply could have testified that he found the glove and not taken the Fifth. Not very difficult for an honest police officer to state under oath that he found the evidence that he claimed to in the manner and area that he claimed to. He did not. Does that mean that Simpson didn’t do the killings? No, of course it doesn’t. If you for some reason have extrapolated that from anything that I have said, then I would advise you re-read it as NOTHING that I have stated even hints at that. I stated that I don’t believe the narrative involving the glove. If you do, then that’s your prerogative. I don’t, and I have state multiple times why I do not. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/55 "2014-04-16T00:42:25Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > **It would be nice if people actually read what I wrote earlier instead of attempting to subvert it into my claiming that there some “conspiracy” by the LAPD to frame Simpson. I never said that, nor do I believe that.** Meh, to the extent that I’m invested in this issue, I’ll gladly pick-and-choose what to respond to. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/56 "2014-04-16T00:44:52Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > I’m sorry, perhaps I was assuming that the critical thinking was a prerequisite for posting to this board. > My mistake. > > “Extraordinarily unlikely” how exactly? > > Fuhrman picks up the glove. > Fuhrman takes it Simpson’s house. > Fuhrman drops the glove. > Fuhrmans claims to have found it. > > What part of that narrative is “extraordinarily unlikely?” > > If anyone had admitted that Fuhrman planted the glove, the case would have collapsed as it would called into question ALL of the evidence presented. If you remember at that time there were/was: > > 1. No eyewitnesses > 2. No confession > 3. A rather specious motive > 4. No murder weapon found > 5. A relatively paltry amount of forensic evidence found considering the brutality of the murders. > > This would have been a difficult case even without the glove. Had the glove been called into question, the entire house of cards would have collapsed and the case would have either been dismissed or Simpson would have been acquitted anyway. > > Fuhrman simply could have testified that he found the glove and not taken the Fifth. Not very difficult for an honest police officer to state under oath that he found the evidence that he claimed to in the manner and area that he claimed to. He did not. > > Does that mean that Simpson didn’t do the killings? > No, of course it doesn’t. > If you for some reason have extrapolated that from anything that I have said, then I would advise you re-read it as NOTHING that I have stated even hints at that. > > I stated that I don’t believe the narrative involving the glove. If you do, then that’s your prerogative. I don’t, and I have state multiple times why I do not. No, “critical thinking” is not “a perquisite for posting on this board”. If it were lots if people wouldn’t be able to. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/57 "2014-04-16T00:51:41Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > 1. No eyewitnesses > 2. No confession > 3. A rather specious motive > 4. No murder weapon found > 5. A relatively paltry amount of forensic evidence found considering the brutality of the murders. These were not things Fuhrman knew about at the time he would have picked up the glove at the crime scene or dropped it at OJ’s house. Without that knowledge he could easily be exposed for framing OJ or his actions could have made it impossible for a competent prosecutor to convict him. It just turned out in OJ’s favor that there wasn’t a competent prosecutor. The motive was not specious, what kind of motive would anybody have for killing Ron and Nicole? There wasn’t a paltry amount of evidence. What else would you expect to find at a crime scene like that? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/58 "2014-04-16T00:54:31Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > **It would be nice if people actually read what I wrote earlier instead of attempting to subvert it into my claiming that there some “conspiracy” by the LAPD to frame Simpson. I never said that, nor do I believe that.** If the entirety of the case hinged on the bloody glove, there may be a valid reason for the jury to acquit OJ Simpson. But that wasn’t even close to the only piece of evidence. You have a ton of other evidence, evidence never handled, discussed, or seen by Fuhrman, that prove beyond any reasonable doubt that OJ killed his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. You have OJ’s blood at the scene of the crime and cuts on his body. You have bloody shoe prints. You have matching fibers at the crime scene. You have the victim’s blood on socks found at OJ’s residence. You have blood of the victims on OJ’s Bronco. You have a history of violence, motive, opportunity, lack of alibi, and a complete lack of any other reasonable options. Be as pissed as you like about the bloody gloves, but they were just one piece of the mountain of evidence against OJ. Evidence the jury ignored to reach their conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/59 "2014-04-16T01:20:19Z")
I dunno, something like lying makes sense for Fuhrman to lie about having said “nigger” in the prior ten years. In his mind, he probably assumed no one could prove different. Obviously if he had known the defense had four people who could testify to the contrary he wouldn’t have lied, as it resulted in him being convicted of a felony, losing his job as a police officer and having to be on probation for some time. But him planting the glove doesn’t really make sense. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but to me it’s not the “simplest” explanation. The simplest explanation is, like almost all murderers O.J. had an ill conceived plan, executed poorly and sloppily. He was in an extreme rush and did a poor job of handling the evidence he was attempting to hide. That is overwhelmingly the simplest explanation. All the other stuff are just arguments about whether or not it’s possible Fuhrman planted the glove. It’s certainly possible. His known racism also implies some “general motive”, but it doesn’t really demonstrate to me much of a specific motive like he would later have for lying on the stand. I’ve always said the presence of a cop who perjured himself and in so doing was also proven a racist would have probably compelled me to question the entirety of the evidence against O.J. It wouldn’t have lead me to believe him innocent, but as a juror I would have been strongly inclined to believe it was at least _reasonable doubt_ as to whether he was guilty. On another level, based on the totality of our knowledge about O.J. and what we’ve learned since I have no doubt he killed Goldman and Nicole, but that’s neither here nor there. Even if you take away Fuhrman a jury of blacks from that party of the country probably was never going to convict O.J. It was their chance to “stick it” to the system especially after a white LA jury had acquitted the white police officers who had beat Rodney King. But take away Fuhrman and put it anywhere else in the country and it was probably an open and shot, ten day murder trial and conviction as another poster said. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139/60 "2014-04-16T02:03:10Z")
From SPY magazine’s “1,001 Reasons Why the OJ Trial Is the Most Absurd Event in the History of America”\* (Nov/Dec 1995 issue), under the section “Why Fuhrman Couldn’t Have Planted the Glove”: 1. According to testimony by Robert Riske, the first officer on the crime scene, police had noticed all of the evidence before Fuhrman had arrived. 2. All the evidence samples had been collected and logged before OJ ever gave police his blood sample. 3. Fourteen officers arrived at the crime scene long before Fuhrman and saw no glove for him to abscond with. 4. Fuhrman was never out of sight of other officers. 5. Video footage showed that Fuhrman was not wearing his jacket during the investigation, making it impossible to conceal the bloody glove. 6. Kato Kaelin reported hearing three loud thumps on the wall near where the glove was found, thumps that he heard before police knew of the murders. 7. Fuhrman had no way of knowing whether Simpson would have an alibi for the time when the murders occurred. 8. Fuhrman did not know whether eyewitnesses might emerge to say they saw the crimes committed. 9. Fibers on the glove were later found to be consistent with those from the inside of OJ’s car, a fact Fuhrman could not have predicted when he reported finding the glove. \*Perhaps not the most rigorous source, but it’s at hand and I am not sufficiently interested to dig up anything else [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-bloody-glove-get-to-ojs-house/686139.md?page=4)