# How Did The Declaration of Independence Actually Get Into King George III's Hands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 28, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632 "2022-04-28T22:50:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/1 "2022-04-28T22:50:33Z")
Did he read it in the newspaper like everybody else in England? Did the Continental Congress send a messenger specifically to take it to him? BONUS QUESTION: Were there England-bound ships heading out of New York Harbor every day? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/2 "2022-04-28T23:02:42Z")
Its actually addressed to “a candid world”; they weren’t telling Englad they were free, they were telling everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/3 "2022-04-28T23:10:52Z")
They sent it to him directly, as the National Archives note, but I don’t see any more detail than that (i.e., whether it was via envoy or parcel post). [Declaration of Independence (archivesjuly4.org)](https://www.archivesjuly4.org/history/declaration-of-independence#:~:text=The%20signers%20sent%20a%20copy,of%20all%20those%20committing%20treason!) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/4 "2022-04-28T23:13:47Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > They sent it to him directly, as the National Archives note, but I don’t see any more detail than that (i.e., whether it was via envoy or parcel post). that’s not what [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence#Annotated_text_of_the_engrossed_declaration) says (I would rate the national archives over that but I don’t see that statement the page you posted): > One of the first readings of the Declaration by the British is believed to have taken place at the [Rose and Crown Tavern](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_and_Crown_Tavern) on [Staten Island, New York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staten_Island,_New_York) in the presence of [General Howe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Howe,_5th_Viscount_Howe).[[97]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence#cite_note-97) British officials in North America sent copies of the Declaration to Great Britain ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/5 "2022-04-28T23:17:27Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > that’s not what [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence#Annotated_text_of_the_engrossed_declaration) says (I would rate the national archives over that but I don’t see that statement the page you posted): The National Archive page says at the bottom > The signers sent a copy of the Declaration to King George III with only two names on it: John Hancock and Charles Thomson, the President and the Secretary of the Continental Congress. The two versions aren’t necessarily in dispute; both could have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/6 "2022-04-28T23:26:54Z")
Googling gives me this: > [@](#): > > If the King saw any version of the Declaration of Independence, it was most likely a broadside. We know that on July 8th, General Howe sent a Dunlap broadside to Lord George Germain, Secretary of State for the Colonies. That same day, Governor Tryon of New York sent a Holt broadside to Germain. These broadsides, as well as several other Dunlaps, reside in the National Archives in the London borough of Richmond. > > Without evidence to the contrary, it is most likely that Lord Germain received a Dunlap broadside of the Declaration of Independence around the second week of August, and relayed the news to King George III. Whatever his initial reaction, the king did not officially respond to the Declaration of Independence until over two months later. When Parliament reconvened on October 31st, 1776, the king opened the session with a speech to both houses [his first public comments] > **[September Highlight: Extravagant and Inadmissible Claim of Independency](https://declaration.fas.harvard.edu/blog/september-kings-speech)** > > On July 11, 1976, in commemoration of the bicentennial, Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip visited the Old State House in Boston. The Queen remarked, "If Paul Revere, Samuel Adams and other patriots could have known that one day a British monarch... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/7 "2022-04-29T00:16:47Z")
Here’s [an earlier thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declaration-of-independence-question/710643/2) that covered it. I’m positive that we touched on this in a fairly recent thread about John Hancock’s signature, but I can’t find it. The answer was that Hancock did not sign the broadside - his name was printed, but in larger letters. Whether George bothered to read the broadside personally seems to be unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/8 "2022-04-30T04:54:14Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > If the King saw any version of the Declaration of Independence, it was most likely a broadside. We know that on July 8th, General Howe sent a Dunlap broadside to Lord George Germain, Secretary of State for the Colonies. A broadside, as everyone knows, is when you fire all the cannons on your ship at once. That pretty much gets the point across. Not sure what a Dunlap Broadside is, sounds like it might involve dropping your trousers. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/9 "2022-04-30T06:24:14Z")
I’m guessing “broadsides” here means something like poster-size printed versions, named for their printers. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/10 "2022-04-30T11:40:11Z")
A broadside was a printed leaflet or poster which was a common way of getting an argument/proposition/theory/announcement before the public in an age before mass circulation newspapers. The printer naturally sought to make money out of it, if it was popular enough. The term appears at least as far back as the [English] civil war. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/11 "2022-04-30T12:54:52Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > Not sure what a Dunlap Broadside is, sounds like it might involve dropping your trousers. John Dunlap was the printer for the continental congress, and was the person who printed the broadsides (single page posters) with copies of the Declaration. They came to be called Dunlap Broadsides. > **[John Dunlap](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dunlap)** > > John Dunlap (1747 – 27 November 1812) was an early American printer who emigrated from Ulster, Ireland and who printed the first copies of the United States Declaration of Independence and was one of the most successful Irish/American printers of his era. He served in the Continental Army under George Washington during the American Revolutionary War. > Dunlap was born in Strabane, County Tyrone, Ireland in 1747. When he was ten years old, he went to work as an apprentice to his uncle, William D... ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/12 "2022-04-30T17:22:49Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > Not sure what a Dunlap Broadside is, sounds like it might involve dropping your trousers. No, it’s _Dunlap’s Disease_ that sometimes involves trouser dropping. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/13 "2022-04-30T20:28:08Z")
I want to know if he needed his specs to read Hancock’s signature. ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/14 "2022-04-30T23:22:09Z")
Originally, Hancock signed it 34 times to make sure it would be readable by “that fat old poop”. [![](http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/history/2014/08/john_hancock_s_declaration_of_independence_signature_was_it_too_big/140730_Hancock-34times.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg) ](http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/history/2014/08/john_hancock_s_declaration_of_independence_signature_was_it_too_big/140730_Hancock-34times.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg) When he was done, he decided it looked “coo-coo”, and had to wad it up and rewrite it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/15 "2022-05-01T01:25:28Z")
Nitpick: George III was 38 years old in 1776. ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/16 "2022-05-01T15:19:22Z")
At the time, Hancock said he made sure to sign it big so "the fat old King can read it without his spectacles”. Or so goes the folklore - I wasn’t there. Now 36 isn’t really old, true, but I’m guessing he meant it affectionately. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/17 "2022-05-18T16:31:18Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > Originally, Hancock signed it 34 times to make sure it would be readable by “that fat old poop”. > [http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news\_and\_politics/history/2014/08/john\_hancock\_s\_declaration\_of\_independence\_signature\_was\_it\_too\_big/140730\_Hancock-34times.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg](http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/history/2014/08/john_hancock_s_declaration_of_independence_signature_was_it_too_big/140730_Hancock-34times.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg) > > When he was done, he decided it looked “coo-coo”, and had to wad it up and rewrite it. Heh! Lookit that show-off Hancock! Pretty fancy signature, for an insurance man! ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-declaration-of-independence-actually-get-into-king-george-iiis-hands/963632/18 "2022-05-19T07:58:07Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > A broadside, as everyone knows, is when you fire all the cannons on your ship at once. That pretty much gets the point across. **Nitpick** You don’t fire them at once, not if don’t want to damage the hull. You do whats known as a rolling, broadside, basically firing them off quickly in turn. Here is HMS Victory [performing a rolling broadside.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_FpYLnNhVw) An [example in film.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXxazufM0x8)