# How did the Democratic Party blow this election as badly as they did? How?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687 "2004-11-03T06:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/181 "2004-11-04T17:12:40Z")
Just to be fair, there are many people like myself, who are far more conservative than liberal, who also think that a large percentage of the population was duped. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/182 "2004-11-04T17:51:18Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > I voted for the gay marriage ban in my state. Then you are a bigot, and I wish I knew you so I could kick you in your redneck-supported face. > [@](#): > > I am not in any way looking to herd gays into concentration camps or prevent them from buying houses or indeed, to prevent them from making any choice what so ever. No, you just want to make it so that we can’t see our loved ones in the hospital. No, you just want to be sure that we can’t take time off work under the Family Leave Act if our loved ones fall gravely ill. Filthy bigot. No, you just want to be sure that I can be thrown in jail for refusing to testify about my private conversations with my beloved, should he be brought up on charges. No, you just want to be sure that if one of us dies, the other loses our house since we can’t inherit property tax free. No, you just want us to be set aside as something lesser and inequal, something undeserving of any sort of recognition of protection. That makes you a bigot. > [@](#): > > I consider myself an evengelical Christian and even _I_ would not want to live under a Christian theocracy, (I don’t think God’s word supports that). Your God is a hate demon of your own creation. > [@](#): > > I do not like being refered to as bigotted or a redneck. THEN DON’T VOTE AGAINST LEGAL EQUALITY FOR MINORITY GROUPS! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/183 "2004-11-04T18:02:03Z")
Spectum, will you just chill or take it to the Pit? FWIW, there wasn’t a gay-marriage amendment in TN, and if there were I would’ve probably voted against it (i.e., _for_ gay marriage). In a world where “cool” and “hot” can be both diametrically opposite and the same thing, there is no reason to legislate a definition for “marriage.” ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/184 "2004-11-04T18:33:50Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Okay, explain THIS to me: The _same_ percentage of homosexuals voted for Bush the first time as the _second_ time. What is this, the self-hating Roy Cohn set? Both Bush _and_ Kerry were against same-sex marriages. By the end of the campaign, [both](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=199736) candidates supported civil unions. Bush was for amending the U.S. Constitution to prevent same-sex marriages, [Kerry](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/02/26/kerry_backs_state_ban_on_gay_marriage/) was for amending state constitutions to prevent same-sex marriages. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/185 "2004-11-04T18:37:38Z")
Those numbers are not necessarily reflective of gay and lesbian America. Only 4% of those polled in the exit survey were gay, and the presidential positioning polled internal to that group is therefore going to have a huge, probably 10% or more, margin of error. Also, 1/3 to half of gays aren’t going to publicly admit their sexuality to some pollster at a polling place. Much of gay America is still very closeted, particularly given the increasing animosity against innocent gay people by the vast, bigoted swaths of red America. The average gay American is in greater danger of being attacked by anti-gay bigots than by Muslim terrorists in todays America. I do not feel safe in this country anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/186 "2004-11-04T18:39:07Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I could swallow this line of reasoning if the electorate had indicated affirmative action and the like were salient issues. It would appear, if exit-polling is any indicator at all of the political and social zeitgeist, almost the entire block of new or habitually-infrequent Republican voters were motivated by anti-gay, anti-abortion, and anti-terrorist agenda, in reportedly that order. From what I’ve been able to dig up, the exit polls never asked about race or immigration - [example](http://election.cbsnews.com/election2004/poll/poll_p ____u_s__ all_us0.shtml) . ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/187 "2004-11-04T18:41:06Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I greatly enjoyed reading this, and would like to commend you on summarizing excellent points. I don’t have much more to add except that maybe you should be launching a letter-writing campaign to the leaders of the Democratic party so they can pull their collective heads out of their arses. Funnily enough, the Conservative Party in the UK have many of the same problems, especially the assumption that “people should vote for us just because we’re not Labour, and all _sensible_ people will agree that we’re the best choice.” I forgot a rather obvious one: the Democrats nominated Kerry, a man who made Al Gore look exciting. Don’t get me wrong: I’d rather someone dull and competent than someone charming but malevolent as President, but charming wins votes. Actually, I can’t say that any of the Democrats who ran this year really won me over personality-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/188 "2004-11-04T18:53:17Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > When it’s explained to you you either refuse to believe it, or dismiss the source as an ignorant bigot. If you lived decades ago, when the fight for interracial marriage was going on, and someone told you that they were against legalizing interracial marriage because they didn’t want to change the definition of marriage … what would you think of that statement? > [@Brutus](#): > > Some three and one-half million voters are nothing to sneeze at, sparky. Funny, that’s by how much liberal candidates beat conservative candidates in 2000. There are two major changes since that election: awareness of terrorism and the focus on gay marriage. Because Americans tend to be xenophobic, prone to panic, bigoted, and freedom-hating, these issues caused a significant shift in the electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/189 "2004-11-04T19:50:16Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Those numbers are not necessarily reflective of gay and lesbian America. Only 4% of those polled in the exit survey were gay, and the presidential positioning polled internal to that group is therefore going to have a huge, probably 10% or more, margin of error. Three sets of polls — CNN, Washington Post, and ABC News — point to similar figures. > [@spectrum](#): > > Also, 1/3 to half of gays aren’t going to publicly admit their sexuality to some pollster at a polling place. Who is more likely to be closeted, a gay Republican or a gay Democrat? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/190 "2004-11-04T20:16:06Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Our view won. Resoundingly… Umm, no. It was a close election, but Bush won. \* Exactly\* as was predicted in the polls. A Bush victory by a small %. Some here were predicting a Bush landslide- which now is clearly wrong. No “landslide” no “mandate”:rolleyes: - A close election. OTOH, although I have no problem with the idea of Gay marriage- those who are against it are not nessesarily “homophobes” or “bigots”- they could simply be “traditionalists”. Now, if you’re against Civil Unions, or “Same-sex partners rights”- then, yes, it is likely that you have a problem with dudes being gay. But you can have every legal right of Marriage without the term “married”- and in fact in many areas that don’t have “Same-sex marriages” they/you have such rights, to some extent at least. And part of the problem is the idea of “support our Agenda 100% or you’re a bigoted homophobe” will turn many against you. It nearly has turned me. It’s a bad idea to make “Gay marriage” a litmus test right now. “Civil Unions”- yes, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Mirasawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mirasawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirasawa)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/191 "2004-11-04T20:28:46Z")
So the Democrats lost all around because America is homophobic? Is that also what happened in states without gay marriage bans? And what happened in the previous elections? Whatever makes them feel better, I suppose. ☹ They should be prepared to be out of power for a generation or two. I like how Democrats proclaim that the media is conservative because they are run by corporations. Does that include Michael Moore? Also that the media swallows whatever the GOP gives them. Does that include CBS false documents? Al qaa qaa explosives? Kitty Kelly? Quite the joyous atmosphere at CBS, NBC, ABC, and CNN Wednesday morning, wasn’t it? 🙂 I also like how Democrats claim that Republicans campaign based on fear, while their campaign is all hope and dreams. And fear about the draft. And social security. And outsourcing. And civil rights. And Roe vs Wade. And more terroism when America destroys terrorists. And health care. \_ ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/192 "2004-11-04T20:49:46Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > If you get ‘every post from the opposition’ out of what I said, then perhaps you need to step back and take a deep breath. I was speaking of Democrats in general. Y’all give off an air of, “Look, we are very smart, and you are stupid. Listen to us, let us take care of you, and you’ll be okay. Otherwise, go screw yourself, you bigoted scumbag”. And before you get your panties in a bunch, that’s the general ‘you’, not you specifically. I agree, there is that attitude: and the right has us nailed six-ways from Sunday on it. What I find absolutely bizarre is how you can maintain the fiction that the right doesn’t do exactly the same thing at just the same, if not more level of volume. We don’t have the same message, the same hype about the right’s elitists. But the right is FULL of elitists with exactly the same attitude you are describing. > [@](#): > > I guarantee you that if Kerry had won, you would not have seen 1/10 of the hysteria from the right that you’re seeing from the left. Why, did they exhaust that hysteria during the campaign? Have you been asleep or something? > [@](#): > > The comments would have been more like, “Shit, I hope he doesn’t cut and run from Iraq”, or “The economy’s going to suffer if he raises taxes,” or at worst, “The military’s morale is going to collapse because they don’t want to be led by a traitor.” Sure, some more nuanced commentators would, and I have no doubt that you would. But you weren’t comparing “some” Democrats to “some” Repbulicans. You simply picked out the spokespeople YOU wanted to focus on. And when it comes to Repbulicans, you carefully ignore exactly the same sorts of wings on your own side. > [@](#): > > But we wouldn’t have been screaming about the end of the world, because in the end we realize that while we may differ on policy, Democrats are not the devil incarnate. You’d push through some bad laws, appoint some annoying judges, and the world would move on. We can disagree about policy while recognizing that you all aren’t incompetant or evil. It was your party that promised nuclear devastation if Kerry won, that ran ads that had his head floating ominously over the WTC in flames. Your party that ran on the idea that marriage and society itself would be destroyed if Kerry won. You party that ran on the idea that abortion is an ongoing holocaust. I agree: the left is annoying, and its arrogant preaching to middle America is a huge drag. But to pretend that the right isn’t just as sanctimonious is just ridiculous. Your party claims to be the party of moral values against the valueless. I don’t think this is quite hypocrisy, just some sort of bizzare ability to switch from finger wagging lectures to attacking people for giving finger wagging lectures without any sense that there is something amiss. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/193 "2004-11-04T20:52:39Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Three sets of polls — CNN, Washington Post, and ABC News — point to similar figures. There is only one set of exit poll data. > [@](#): > > Who is more likely to be closeted, a gay Republican or a gay Democrat? Both. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/194 "2004-11-04T21:01:53Z")
> [@Mirasawa](#): > > So the Democrats lost all around because America is homophobic? No, that’s not what’s being said at all. Rove had a strategy: get out 4 million more evangelical knuckle-draggers to the polls and Bush is a clinch to win. His way to do this was to get anti-gay initiatives on the ballot in as many states as possible. This accounts for a lot of Bush’s margin, but by no means all. But, in the Bigot State of Ohio, the Hate Amendment won by a huge margin, and provided coattails… coattails which swept Bush just a shade above Kerry in the statewide vote, and gave him the win. And the presidency. That’s what’s meant when the fact that Bush won by gay bashing. It’s not a universal statement, and only a dundering idiot would think its meant to refer to any election but this one. > [@](#): > > They should be prepared to be out of power for a generation or two. So you think that the GOP will control the White House for the next forty years? You need to up your medication. > [@](#): > > Does that include Michael Moore? Michael Moore is a filmmaker. He is not part of the journalism world that is sometimes described as “the media.” The media is the journalistic infrastructure of the United States. The news networks, CNN, Faux News, the newspapers, even talk radio which presents itself as journalism. How is Michael Moore apart of that? > [@](#): > > Does that include CBS false documents? CBS didn’t create those documents. They got duped. It happens. > [@](#): > > Al qaa qaa explosives? How is that not a valid news story? > [@](#): > > Kitty Kelly? She is not part of “the media.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/195 "2004-11-04T21:18:58Z")
And on the off-chance that **Mirasawa** ’s post was in any way directed at me: I’m not a Democrat. I’m not even remotely a fan of the Democratic party, and the Cliff Notes version of my original post is that they’re a bunch of fuckups too incompetent even to be properly corrupt. The fact that I dislike the current administration even more than I dislike the Democrats is hardly an endorsement of the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Mirasawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mirasawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirasawa)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/196 "2004-11-04T21:44:37Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > No, that’s not what’s being said at all. > > Rove had a strategy: get out 4 million more evangelical knuckle-draggers to the polls and Bush is a clinch to win. His way to do this was to get anti-gay initiatives on the ballot in as many states as possible. This accounts for a lot of Bush’s margin, but by no means all. > > But, in the Bigot State of Ohio, the Hate Amendment won by a huge margin, and provided coattails… coattails which swept Bush just a shade above Kerry in the statewide vote, and gave him the win. And the presidency. > > That’s what’s meant when the fact that Bush won by gay bashing. It’s not a universal statement, and only a dundering idiot would think its meant to refer to any election but this one. Thanks. That some good speculation and nice package of blame that doesn’t include San Francisco mayors defying the law handing out marriage licenses, and Massachusetts judges employing the last way for liberals to get their ideas implemented. > [@spectrum](#): > > So you think that the GOP will control the White House for the next forty years? You need to up your medication. Maybe not the white house for a generation, but the Congress was controlled by the Democrats for two generations so it’s not pure fantasy. Also, though there’s not many presidents during a generation, the Republicans have recently been more successful in getting that. Plus the supreme court doesn’t turn over much and it looks like some will finally step down. > [@spectrum](#): > > Michael Moore is a filmmaker. He is not part of the journalism world that is sometimes described as “the media.” His documentary was accepted as truth by a large number of people, foreign and domestic. I don’t think it’s fair to think it was accepted as fiction or just another documentary like “Hoop Dreams”. > [@spectrum](#): > > (al qaa qaa) > How is that not a valid news story? Because it was an October surprise, meant to air on 60 minutes on Oct 31st. Not meant to influence the election? Ha. > [@spectrum](#): > > (Kitty Kelly) > She is not part of “the media.” She, her views, and her books were featured on the Today show and what not. She’s not a Bush supporter, for sure. The other end of the spectrum, say… Swift Boat Veterans… had to use Fox and talk radio. “Well of course, conservatives lie, and liberals tell the truth!” Of course. But it shows that left-wingers get their message out just fine, but it’s still rejected. \_ ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/197 "2004-11-04T21:45:27Z")
The British newspaper The Guardian done it. They handed the election to Bush. > [@](#): > > Could the Guardian and its Operation Clark County be responsible for a second Bush term? > > The well-meaning but not well received project attempted to link political pen pals in Britain with residents of Clark County, Ohio. > > It was probably down to this stealth get-out-the-vote campaign, but Republican leaders said the Guardian project helped fire up their base, especially in Clark County. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3980873.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3980873.stm) Oh, the irony. The mere thought must be enough to drive some Guardian editors crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Mirasawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mirasawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirasawa)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/198 "2004-11-04T21:57:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And on the off-chance that **Mirasawa** ’s post was in any way directed at me: I’m not a Democrat. I’m not even remotely a fan of the Democratic party, and the Cliff Notes version of my original post is that they’re a bunch of fuckups too incompetent even to be properly corrupt. The fact that I dislike the current administration even more than I dislike the Democrats is hardly an endorsement of the latter. uh… no… 🙂 maybe there’s an earlier post, but I agree with the sentiment that “why doesn’t the majority see our truth?” usually means “our truth” is really “our fallacy”. I definately don’t agree that the Democrats are stupid. Republicans are definately not either. That was one of the failures of the Democrats in this last campaign, they thought GWB was dumb… he is NOT. He might not make speeches well, but that skill didn’t help Clinton succeed with socialized medicine or gays in the military. \_ ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/199 "2004-11-04T22:18:49Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Then you are a bigot, and I wish I knew you so I could kick you in your redneck-supported face. I find this kind of speech disturbing. It borders on hate speech, implying violence because someone has expressed views and values different from yours. Before this week, I had not been here in quite a while. I hope this is not indicative of what this board has become. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/200 "2004-11-04T22:24:04Z")
spectrum and others, if you keep on saying that the evangelicals are ‘knuckle dragging bigots’, guess what? You will never get to convince them of the virtues of your ideas, and they in turn, will work a lot more feverishly, but more subtly, to insure that your ideas won’t become policy. And as they keep on growing in power in matters of policymaking, they will be more able to tune the likes of you out without any fear of reprisal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687.md?page=11)