# How did the Democratic Party blow this election as badly as they did? How?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687 "2004-11-03T06:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/21 "2004-11-03T10:25:38Z")
If you accept that the Bush family is from Texas… :rolleyes: (I don’t but everyone seems to believe it) How many Yankee presidents have there been in the last 40 years? not GWB not clinton not GHWB not Reagan not Carter Ford…? not Nixon not Johnson JFK …there he is. wait that’s been more than 40 years…so how many is it? one and who was it that won the civil war? how many before kennedy? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/22 "2004-11-03T10:27:31Z")
> [@](#): > > The Democrats need to start standing for stuff. They need someone that will offer a real health care plan. Yep. They need to make it look like they stand for something. They came off as totally reactive for the last 5 years. Something like healthcare is an issue they can sink their teeth into, and promote as good Dems. They can gain votes there. Instead they were week on details, and threw away any health care reform credibility by selling their soul to the trial lawyers with a VP nomination, which everybody thinks is the core behind the health care problem. Pointing out again and again in the debates that the world wasn’t for the war, and WMD wern’t found doesn’t do shit. Everybody had already made up their mind on that issue. You don’t campain on the already decided stuff. You put _your_ good foot forward, you don’t waste all your time defending the stuff that has always been an achillies heel for your party, strong defense and security. It was among the worst run campaigns I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/23 "2004-11-03T10:58:41Z")
> [@t-keela](#): > > If you accept that the Bush family is from Texas… :rolleyes: (I don’t but everyone seems to believe it) > How many Yankee presidents have there been in the last 40 years? > > Ford…? Michigan. But he wasn’t elected. Also, some wouldn’t apply the term “Yankee” to the Mid-West- others would. But he definitely weren’t no Southerner. (But again, he wasn’t elected.) > [@t-keela](#): > > how many before kennedy? Just about everybody between Johnson and Johnson was a Yankee. Wilson was born and raised in Virginia but was educated in the North and ascended to the Presidency from being Governor of New Jersey. Truman- Missouri, not “Yankee” but certainly not Southern. Eisenhower born in Texas but grew up in Kansas. But he was a New Yorker when he was nominated for President. But, yeah, it’s been really difficult for Yankees in the last forty years. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/24 "2004-11-03T10:58:48Z")
For some reason Americans seem to be more gullible and believe anything that Bush says to them. Maybe it is the connection with fundamentalist churches in the South and mid-West. Those churches don’t encourage people to think for themselves. And they do encourage people to vote for “moral” leaders. “Moral” leaders are the ones who talk about their conversions (both of them) and talk about praying and how much their faith means to them. They kill a lot of people in wars and they tell lies and are spiteful and are greedy and blah, blah, blah. But they take the “right” stand on the issues and that makes them “moral.” So people in the South and mid-West vote for them and believe everything they say. And then there are some intelligent people who vote for them for reasons that I do not understand and never will. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/25 "2004-11-03T11:15:34Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Michigan. But he wasn’t elected. Also, some wouldn’t apply the term “Yankee” to the Mid-West- others would. But he definitely weren’t no Southerner. (But again, he wasn’t elected.) > > Just about everybody between Johnson and Johnson was a Yankee. > > Wilson was born and raised in Virginia but was educated in the North and ascended to the Presidency from being Governor of New Jersey. > > Truman- Missouri, not “Yankee” but certainly not Southern. > > Eisenhower born in Texas but grew up in Kansas. But he was a New Yorker when he was nominated for President. > > But, yeah, it’s been really difficult for Yankees in the last forty years. pretty good **bv** I knew it was something like that. You did catch the Ford wasn’t elected deal. very good… I believe I’d quit trying to get a candidate from up north in the Whitehouse. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/26 "2004-11-03T11:52:04Z")
> [@Even Sven](#): > > The Democrats lost because the Democrats are Republican Lite. They seem to stand for nothing except being Republicans- just a little less so. Nobody is going to vote for somebody that is nothing more than just a little less than the Real Thing. A-fucking-men. > [@](#): > > The Democrats need to start standing for stuff. They need someone that will offer a real health care plan. They needed to have the guts to vote against the war before it happened- it was painfully obvious to me that the whole thing was a lie from the beginning. I’m sure I’m not smarter than nearly the entire Democratic party. They need someone that says the fight against gay marriage is ridiculous. They need someone that promises to reign in the religious zealots. It may hurt them at first to move to the left like that, but it’s their only option. They are never going to appeal to the right, all they can hope to do is to attract people to the left. I think by showing strength, standing up for what they believe in and electing strong candidates with strong views on issues- even the contriversial ones- they can once again become a viable party. No fucking way. That sort of crap is what makes them the Not-Quite-Republican Party. Clinton tried (and failed) to change the Democratic Party, and the Republicans took up the slack. They moved toward the center. The right hangs on only because it has nowhere else to go. What the Democrats should do is return to their own base — pre-socialism, pre-authoritarianism, pre-FDR. They’ve warped the term “liberal” beyond all recognition. The rest of the world still thinks of liberals as people who champion personal liberty and freedom from the tyranny of government. Democrats need to offer an _alternative_. Republicans already offer healthcare schemes — medicare, prescription drugs, and all that junk. They already collect and redistribute more wealth than ever in America’s history. They are the ones who squawk about “rights” as though they were permissions from magistrates, to be dolled out to those with enough clout to demand them. Democrats have promised Gays and Lesbians the moon, and they fall for it like clockwork. Every. Four. Years. Clinton made gays in the military a cornerstone of his campaign, and then the moment he realized it was not politically expedient, he unleashed his don’t ask don’t tell fiasco, which has resulted in more discharged gays than ever. Democrats have become a fractured, rag-tag mixture of every conceivable disparate nutjob keyhole special interest — tree huggers, tax lusters, feminazis, radicals, anarchists, pacifists, new age activists, snooty academics — sniveling and grovelling, demanding their “rights” from a people who have a whole different idea about what rights are. They shouldn’t try to convince people that fighting against gay rights is ridiculous; they should try to convince people that fighting against _freedom_ is ridiculous. Gay marriage isn’t a matter of rights, but of freedom. Democrats are quickly making “rights” into the same dirty word that they’ve made “liberal”. They sit in their ivory tower, preaching to their own choir, shutting out the whole world outside, and — oh, the irony of ironies — have the nerve to ridicule their opposition as “stupid”. The Democrat method of approach has been, “Hey, idiot! I know you’re too dumb to understand this, but you need to support us. It’s for your own good.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/27 "2004-11-03T11:59:01Z")
Evidence to support my assertions: > [@Gobear](#): > > I’m shaking your hand, but also warning you that you made a big mistake, more of a “Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do.” From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5447449&postcount=84). ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/28 "2004-11-03T12:09:53Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Democrats are quickly making “rights” into the same dirty word that they’ve made “liberal”. I wondered what your beef was w/ them damned self rightous sons o’ bitches. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/29 "2004-11-03T12:12:16Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > This democrat can put a hole in a quarter dollar at 20 yards with a .50 caliber Kentucky Long Rifle (muzzleloader)… > Who you callin’ effette? And while you’re reloading, there are a bunch of conservatives still squeezing the trigger on their “assault weapons.” ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/30 "2004-11-03T12:14:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Tonight, the Democratic Party: > George W Bush is the most hated sitting President since Tricky Dick Obviously, given the nature of the popular vote, he is not that hated. I think it would be more accurate to say that the people who DO hate him hate with unprecedented passion. But there simply aren’t a large enough percentage of those people to swing a national election. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/31 "2004-11-03T12:17:34Z")
I think a lot of folks voted for him despite their disgust. I think they’re just more scared of Kerry than they dislike Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/32 "2004-11-03T12:39:10Z")
Kerry is scary? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/33 "2004-11-03T12:48:41Z")
Reasons for Kerry’s downfall: 1- Yankee distrust in the South. Many southerners will not vote for a Yankee- period. 2- Running from the Senate. If you spend 20 years in the Senate, you vote on lots of things. People can take these hundreds of votes and “prove” that you love to raise taxes, or hate the troops, etc. etc. 3- Homophobia. Perhaps the most important. Many states had homophobic proposals on the ballot, this mobilized the religious right more than any candidate could. 4- Kerry’s failure to relate. A lot of folks felt Kerry talked down to the people. No such danger from Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/34 "2004-11-03T12:49:35Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > It boils down to this, IMHO: A Northeastern Democrat will always have a very tough time winning the Presidency these days, given the South. Sadly, this IS the (silent) crux of the matter. It’s Dukakis all over again. Who are the people that head the Democratic party, anyhow? You’d think they’d learn by now to sculpt a well-rounded candidate (prior to the Primary) that will take the Primary with a high rate of confidence and can then go the distance. Picking Edwards from TN was a token effort to appease the South. Well, I hope they don’t “waffle” on “their man” should Bush pull out all the stops in his next 4-yr reign. I hear there’ll be a big change in filing taxes now…we’ll be able to send our taxes directly to Haliburton! - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/35 "2004-11-03T13:11:03Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > The Democrats need to start standing for stuff. They need someone that will offer a _real_ health care plan. They needed to have the guts to vote against the war before it happened- it was painfully obvious to me that the whole thing was a lie from the beginning. I’m sure I’m not smarter than nearly the entire Democratic party. They need someone that says the fight against gay marriage is ridiculous. They need someone that promises to reign in the religious zealots. It may hurt them at first to move to the left like that, but it’s their only option. They are never going to appeal to the right, all they can hope to do is to attract people to the left. I think by showing strength, standing up for what they believe in and electing strong candidates with strong views on issues- even the contriversial ones- they can once again become a viable party. Yes, Democrats! Listen to **even sven**. Field a candidate with a more government-centered health plan than Kerry had. Field a candidate that supports gay marriage. If you do that, I can start offering bets on 2008 right now. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/36 "2004-11-03T13:12:25Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > For some reason Americans seem to be more gullible and believe anything that Bush says to them. Maybe it is the connection with fundamentalist churches in the South and mid-West. Those churches don’t encourage people to think for themselves. And they do encourage people to vote for “moral” leaders. > > “Moral” leaders are the ones who talk about their conversions (both of them) and talk about praying and how much their faith means to them. They kill a lot of people in wars and they tell lies and are spiteful and are greedy and blah, blah, blah. But they take the “right” stand on the issues and that makes them “moral.” > > So people in the South and mid-West vote for them and believe everything they say. > > And then there are some intelligent people who vote for them for reasons that I do not understand and never will. This outlook saddens me. I regret that you have the opinion that Americans are gullible and that churches somehow teach people “not to think”. And just a question, doen’t people die in wars even if sent to battle by a democrat? I can understand the disappointment from the election (which ain’t over yet) but to blame it on the majority being “gullible” and “not thinking” does a disservice to our fellow citizens and the democratic process. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/37 "2004-11-03T13:13:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, Democrats! Listen to **even sven**. Field a candidate with a more government-centered health plan than Kerry had. Field a candidate that supports gay marriage. > > If you do that, I can start offering bets on 2008 right now. Tell me – exactly what body count and debt is your target? Is it possible that Bush will meet that goal in the next four years? Then you won’t have to worry about 2008. You’ll have the America you dream of before that election. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/38 "2004-11-03T13:25:54Z")
Bush has a ways to go to catch Democrat Lyndon Johnson’s body count. A long ways to go. Here’s a clue for you: the leftist someone-else-is-always-responsible mantra isn’t working either. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/39 "2004-11-03T13:29:12Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Tell me – exactly what body count and debt is your target? Is it possible that Bush will meet that goal in the next four years? Then you won’t have to worry about 2008. You’ll have the America you dream of before that election. Hello, strawman. I don’t have a “body count” goal or a debt goal. But keep up that winning attitude, because that’s what middle America loves to hear from the left! It worked great this time, and it’ll only get better with age! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687/40 "2004-11-03T13:33:02Z")
How? You can’t beat something with nothing. Kerry offered nothing. Except “I’m not Bush”. So is everyone else on earth - why should we vote for Kerry? The Democratic party has no ideas. They seemed to have been completely at a loss for what to put forward, and they dropped back to their default position - a person whose sole claim to fame is that he protested the Viet Nam war, for heaven’s sake. That was thirty years or so ago - didn’t you notice that a lot has happened since then? What was Kerry going to do if elected? He kept saying he had a plan to get out of Iraq, but never seemed to want to share what it was, apart from trying to talk the French and Russians into doing what they had already stated publicly they would not do. He was going to reform health care, but he has absolutely no record in the Senate on the issue. He was going to cut the deficit in half, which is projected to happen anyway. He was going to raise taxes, and spend the money on whatever - and more. Much, much more. He was going to improve an economy that is improving anyway. I know this will do no good, since it did the other 399 times I’ve posted it, but I might as well get it off my chest. The center in America is further to the right than many of you folks want to admit. I know that is not what you want to hear. I know that is not what you read on [www.talkingpointsmemo.com](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com) or the blogs. I know that is not what you hear on CBS or Air America. But it is true nonetheless. If you want to win elections, you have to move to the center, and that means move **to the right**. If you move further to the left, you are not getting closer to Bush, you are getting closer to Nader. And he didn’t do too well either. If the lesson you take from all this is that you lost because you didn’t scream loudly enough, then “get used to disappointment”. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-democratic-party-blow-this-election-as-badly-as-they-did-how/272687.md?page=3)