# How did the Obama Adminstration affect the "racial divide?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703 "2017-09-07T02:24:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/81 "2017-09-11T22:35:10Z")
Obama didn’t cause the racial divide. White liberals incessantly pushing white moderates and conservatives did. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/82 "2017-09-11T22:37:53Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Do you consider a white person today racist until proven otherwise? Don’t even bother asking such types direct quotes. They will never answer honestly and reveal themselves. It’s the duck, weave, dodge, and obfuscate. White Liberals today look what’s happening in South Africa - the uncompensated redistribution of land from whites to blacks - and are eagerly awaiting for the chance to do it here. The funny thing is, it isn’t Blacks who feel this way. It’s White Liberals who feel this holieur than thou need to fight others’ battles for them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/83 "2017-09-11T22:37:53Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Obama didn’t cause the racial divide. White liberals incessantly pushing white moderates and conservatives did. Yes, race relations were so perfect in American history until the white liberals showed up. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/84 "2017-09-11T22:38:53Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Don’t even bother asking such types direct quotes. They will never answer honestly and reveal themselves. It’s the duck, weave, dodge, and obfuscate. White Liberals today look what’s happening in South Africa - the uncompensated redistribution of land from whites to blacks - and are eagerly awaiting for the chance to do it here. > > The funny thing is, it isn’t Blacks who feel this way. It’s White Liberals who feel this holieur than thou need to fight others’ battles for them. That straw man is deader n’ dead! Well done! ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/85 "2017-09-11T22:39:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes, race relations were so perfect in American history until the white liberals showed up. :rolleyes: Didn’t say that, but they’re certainly worse now than they were in 2010. The White Upper Class Liberals, and Right Wing White Nationalists/Klan members, are the two groups most obsessed with race today. I think regular people don’t give nearly as much a shit, but hearing about it from the media, and from the alt-right media, has alienated people. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/86 "2017-09-11T22:42:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why not? What’s so implausible about it? > > And do you hold that it’s unreasonable for someone to find it plausible? If not, then you must hold that it’s reasonable for someone to suspect a more than trivial chance that racism was involved. This is now pretty circular. I find Gates’s version implausible for the opposite reasons I find the cop’s version plausible. People can believe whatever they want, but not all beliefs are weighted equally. For the charge of racism to be levied, the chance that it is true must be much much much greater than trivial, IMO. It’s not like, let’s just call everything racist and figure it out later, no harm no foul. If someone levies the charge of racism without strong evidence, that’s a dick move. I’m telling you, because of the magnitude of racism claims I’ve heard in real life, my default position is to treat them with skepticism, I discount them because I find them so often to be misplaced. That is the real world impact of calling everything racist, the charge has a higher burden to bear because it is levied so freely. I’m trying to think of an example to make the point. If you saw a random person waiting in a car outside of an elementary school, would accuse them of being a pedophile sans other evidence? I wouldn’t, because most of the time, that’s going to be a person waiting to pick up their kid. And accusing someone of being a pedophile if they aren’t a pedophile, is a really dick move. Anyways, hopefully I’ve made my point. I’m going to drop out of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/87 "2017-09-11T22:42:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m pretty sure he did talk about most, if not all, of these things. Eventually perhaps but his first statement didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/88 "2017-09-11T22:43:44Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Didn’t say that, but they’re certainly worse now than they were in 2010. The White Upper Class Liberals, and Right Wing White Nationalists/Klan members, are the two groups most obsessed with race today. I think regular people don’t give nearly as much a shit, but hearing about it from the media, and from the alt-right media, has alienated people. Being willing to talk about racism, and consider its power and significance, doesn’t have to mean obsession, and it doesn’t even have to be a bad thing. Maybe it’s reasonable and even positive to talk about these things in a thoughtful way. So far most of the things you’ve objected to have been misinterpretations of liberal arguments or outright straw men. Why not try engaging us on the things we’re actually saying? It can be tough to understand how others are actually thinking, but ultimately it can be very worth it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/89 "2017-09-11T22:45:50Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is now pretty circular. I find Gates’s version implausible for the opposite reasons I find the cop’s version plausible. People can believe whatever they want, but not all beliefs are weighted equally. > > For the charge of racism to be levied, the chance that it is true must be much much much greater than trivial, IMO. It’s not like, let’s just call everything racist and figure it out later, no harm no foul. If someone levies the charge of racism without strong evidence, that’s a dick move. I’m telling you, because of the magnitude of racism claims I’ve heard in real life, my default position is to treat them with skepticism, I discount them because I find them so often to be misplaced. That is the real world impact of calling everything racist, the charge has a higher burden to bear because it is levied so freely. > > I’m trying to think of an example to make the point. If you saw a random person waiting in a car outside of an elementary school, would accuse them of being a pedophile sans other evidence? I wouldn’t, because most of the time, that’s going to be a person waiting to pick up their kid. And accusing someone of being a pedophile if they aren’t a pedophile, is a really dick move. > > Anyways, hopefully I’ve made my point. I’m going to drop out of the thread. I agree with almost everything in your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs except the “I discount them” part, and nothing but that conflicts with the intention of my posts. I also think skepticism is reasonable, and levying accusations of racism without good evidence is unwise (though exploring the possibility isn’t necessarily levying an accusation). We both oppose unreasonable charges of racism, we just disagree on which charges happen to be unreasonable, and how frequent they are. So much of this conversation appears to have been talking past each other, as much as I’m trying to lay out my points clearly and honestly. That’s always a shame, but you don’t need to give up so easily. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/90 "2017-09-11T22:47:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Being willing to talk about racism, and consider its power and significance, doesn’t have to mean obsession, and it doesn’t even have to be a bad thing. Maybe it’s reasonable and even positive to talk about these things in a thoughtful way. > > So far most of the things you’ve objected to have been misinterpretations of liberal arguments or outright straw men. Why not try engaging us on the things we’re actually saying? It can be tough to understand how others are actually thinking, but ultimately it can be very worth it. It’s the only thing the Left wants to talk about. It’s become a tiresome discussion, which ultimately for me boils down to the fact that Police need to have sensitivity training and be demilitarized, and poor areas need to actually be invested in and cared about. In real life, these issues aren’t nearly as important as within the political bubble. And because honestly, I do not trust left wingers to be honest about their views. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/91 "2017-09-11T22:49:51Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > It’s the only thing the Left wants to talk about. It’s become a tiresome discussion, which ultimately for me boils down to the fact that Police need to have sensitivity training and be demilitarized, and poor areas need to actually be invested in and cared about. > > In real life, these issues aren’t nearly as important as within the political bubble. > > And because honestly, I do not trust left wingers to be honest about their views. If you’re unwilling to consider that I might be being honest in my views, then there’s no point in engaging at all. What a shame. That makes it much easier to assume immoral motives for those you disagree with – but what’s easy is often not what’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/92 "2017-09-12T01:53:59Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is what the [disorderly conduct law says](http://code.cambridgema.gov/2015-07/9/2/9.08.010/) (it was updated Oct-2015, so I’m operating under the assumption that it wasn’t materially changed): > > So assuming [what the cop said](http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF) is true, then Gates was acting in a way sufficient to sustain a charge of disorderly conduct. If the cop is lying, then, well, the entire police report should be disregarded. Anyone who knows anything about cops and law enforcement knows that a disorderly conduct charge is a cop’s go-to charge when he or she wants to assert his authority. It doesn’t have to ever be proven, because the charge is easily dropped after arrest. Seriously, do you see any reason why Gates should be subject to arrest under that charge when he is in his own home and all that has to happen for everything to go back to normal is that the cop has to apologize and leave? > [@](#): > > None of that presumes the government faked the moon landing. On July 21, 1969, every sentence would be exactly correct. Do you think this implies the government faked the moon landing? I do. Oh, because the ruling class of this society has been faking scientific milestones for 400 years, because for another 200 years, the government required the faking of scientific milestones, and in fact the government science programs were constructed in part with the purpose of faking scientific milestones. A war had to be fought to stop half the government from making faking of scientific milestones mandatory. Thousands of people every day are subject to government agents who stop them in the street in order to falsify scientific milestones. This isn’t a serious analogy. It’s either a joke or it’s the product of monumental self-delusion. > [@](#): > > I don’t find Gates’s account plausible. If I were on a jury, based on the information available now I would discount his testimony. If you walked just a day in a black man’s shoes, even made the smallest attempt to see a different point of view, you’d see something very different. But it’s clear you have absolutely no interest in doing anything about racism except to demand definitive proof any time the topic is brought up. You live in a country and in a society for which the worst form of racism that human civilization has ever known was one of the cornerstones building blocks of society. That the society has taken such huge steps to try to do something about it is amazing. But here you are, acting like you’ve fallen out of the sky just yesterday. You’re a person who seems to be born again every morning, because you want to pretend that today everything starts from zero, and racism is a charge so implausible and unthinkable that it must be proven by incontrovertible proof each time the work is spoken. You could not do better if you had an explicit goal of preserving racism as your most cherished value. And here you are telling the victims of racism, the people who have to live with it every day, live every day knowing that their past, present, and future are colored by the racism of the ruling class of society, you’re telling them that they need to be careful about how they bring up their complaints, because the last thing you want to do is upset or offend the people who benefit the most from racism and have all the power in this society. Don’t be mean! Don’t be so accusing! Don’t jump to conclusions! Don’t you see how hard it is to prove definitively that racism exists? It’s such a difficult puzzle! Who knows whether anything can ever be done! But it’s so fortunate that there’s so little of it around! The most important thing is not to be so angry! Just stop talking about it and everything will be fine! Because talking about it is the worst thing about racism. Holy fuck. You’re trying to pull a big snow job on someone, that’s for sure. It’s either us or it’s yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/93 "2017-09-12T01:56:35Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > It’s become a tiresome discussion Oh, poor thing, you’re so tired of people talking about how they’re being systematically victimized because of a characteristic of their birth. It’s so much worse than actually having to live with the burden of a racist society affecting every aspect of your life. Poor fucking you. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/94 "2017-09-12T09:01:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Obama did affect the racial divide nearly as much as the SJWs who’ve cooked up the concepts of ‘white privilege’, ‘cultural appropriation’ and the Confederacy controversy. None have accomplished a damn thing that is positive and a whole lot that is negative. Each is just one more way to cause black people to hate and resent white people and for white people to resent black people and the SJWs who are endlessly, foolishly and selfishly stoking the fires of racial divide. Obama affected the racial divide in the same way that turning on the light “affects” the cockroach infestation in one’s kitchen. It’s been there a long time but suddenly it’s much more out in the open and harder to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/95 "2017-09-12T13:04:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > By making the issue whether you can prove that a particular person was being racist in a particular instance, you will practically never find racism. > > And that’s because people who are intentionally being racist will deny it and there will be no specific proof when (in the vast majority of cases) people who are acting under an unconscious racial bias or within a system that itself is implicitly racially biased. > > The result will be the patently ludicrous conclusion that racism almost never plays a role in such cases. We know that that is untrue. How does the fact that we can almost never prove racism, prove racism? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/96 "2017-09-12T14:32:48Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > As I recall the great hope was that he was the Great Uniter. Polling says racial trust became or was made worse. I guess this is a debate — why? Obama took sides in racially charged national media cases, going against the cops before facts came out ( Who were proven correct ). He shot the first aimed later and failed to criticize radical alt left type group fanning the flames. A president should remain neutral only speaking up after the facts. Obama sent his attorney general to the front. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/97 "2017-09-12T14:34:03Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > As I recall the great hope was that he was the Great Uniter. Polling says racial trust became or was made worse. I guess this is a debate — why? Obama took sides in racially charged national media cases, going against the cops before facts came out ( Who were proven correct ). He shot the first aimed later and failed to criticize radical alt left type group fanning the flames. A president should remain neutral only speaking up after the facts. Obama sent his attorney general to the front and injected race into the equation by saying if he had a son, he would look like T. Martin. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/98 "2017-09-12T14:40:38Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Obama took sides in racially charged national media cases, going against the cops before facts came out ( Who were proven correct ). He did give his opinion, which turned out to be a political mistake, but there was no “going against the cops before the facts came out”, nor was anyone “proven correct”. > [@](#): > > He shot the first aimed later and failed to criticize radical alt left type group fanning the flames. This sentence is barely coherent, and I have no idea what you’re referring to anyway. What “alt left type group”? What is the “alt left” ? > [@](#): > > A president should remain neutral only speaking up after the facts. Obama sent his attorney general to the front and injected race into the equation by saying if he had a son, he would look like T. Martin. Huh? Obama was showing empathy with a grieving family. How did that “inject race into the equation”? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/99 "2017-09-12T14:46:34Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Obama took sides in racially charged national media cases, going against the cops before facts came out ( Who were proven correct ). He shot the first aimed later and failed to criticize radical alt left type group fanning the flames. > > A president should remain neutral only speaking up after the facts. Obama sent his attorney general to the front and injected race into the equation by saying if he had a son, he would look like T. Martin. Please provide a cite not informed by Fox/Breitbart News. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703/100 "2017-09-12T19:26:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He did give his opinion, which turned out to be a political mistake, but there was no “going against the cops before the facts came out”, nor was anyone “proven correct”. The first two points of his statement were (1) I don’t know the facts and (2) the cops acted stupidly. How is that not going against the cops before the facts came out? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-obama-adminstration-affect-the-racial-divide/795703.md?page=6)