# How did the Russians meddle in our election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 8, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293 "2018-08-08T19:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/61 "2018-08-10T00:04:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But if I’m a Russian guy, in Russia, and I do this, how am I under the jurisdiction of US law? I don’t understand that part. I can’t say for sure, but if your acts are carried out within U.S. jurisdiction, even if you are not physically present, then you would seem to be in jeopardy (at least in theory). For example, the Russian intelligence officers indicted for hacking the DNC surely were not present in the U.S. when it happened. If they had mailed a check from downtown Moscow for a million dollars to Trump’s campaign, of course they would be in similar trouble. Of course, if you they sent a letter to the editor of the Moscow Times saying how great Trump was, it’s hard to see how the U.S. would have any jurisdiction over that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/62 "2018-08-10T00:51:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But if I’m a Russian guy, in Russia, and I do this, how am I under the jurisdiction of US law? I don’t understand that part. > [@Ravenman](#): > > I can’t say for sure, but if your acts are carried out within U.S. jurisdiction, even if you are not physically present, then you would seem to be in jeopardy (at least in theory). > > For example, the Russian intelligence officers indicted for hacking the DNC surely were not present in the U.S. when it happened. If they had mailed a check from downtown Moscow for a million dollars to Trump’s campaign, of course they would be in similar trouble. > > Of course, if you they sent a letter to the editor of the Moscow Times saying how great Trump was, it’s hard to see how the U.S. would have any jurisdiction over that. I’m interested in these questions as well. **Ravenman** , are you saying that I could write a letter to the Washington Post (assuming the Brits had a similar law) urging our cousins to vote Labour, but if I posted on Facebook and someone in the UK downloaded it onto their phone or PC in the UK, then I have committed a crime? What if the Post included my letter in their online edition and UK citizens viewed the letter on the web in the UK? Again, this is GQ, so I’m not trying to argue, but it seems like we have an undefined line here regarding what foreigners may or may not do in our elections. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/63 "2018-08-10T01:02:49Z")
I cannot speak for U.K. laws. I think it’s fair to say that the intersection between campaign finance laws and protected speech are complex. And campaign finance laws have been turned upside down over and over during the last couple decades, so I think it’s fair to say that the limits of such laws remain to be fully tested. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/64 "2018-08-10T02:40:40Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > 1. They used public media (Facebook, mostly) to plant disinformation designed to influence voters. > 2. Trump’s campaign asked the Russians for “dirt” on Clinton. It is unclear whether this is “collusion” or not, but getting a foreign intelligence service to help your campaign is questionable at best. Clinton campaign PAID Russians for dirt which was unsubstantiated. Russians paid Bill Clinton a half million dollars for a speech and 145 million to the Clinton foundation. The Trump campaign paid nothing to the Russians and received nothing from the Russians. The minuscule amount of money the Russians paid to facebook covered BOTH parties. Beyond that Hillary outspent Trump 2 to 1. It’s time the Democratic party took ownership for putting HRC ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/65 "2018-08-10T02:43:02Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > 1. They used public media (Facebook, mostly) to plant disinformation designed to influence voters. > 2. Trump’s campaign asked the Russians for “dirt” on Clinton. It is unclear whether this is “collusion” or not, but getting a foreign intelligence service to help your campaign is questionable at best. Clinton campaign PAID Russians for dirt which was unsubstantiated. Russians paid Bill Clinton a half million dollars for a speech and 145 million to the Clinton foundation. The Trump campaign paid nothing to the Russians and received nothing from the Russians. The minuscule amount of money the Russians paid to facebook covered BOTH parties. Beyond that Hillary outspent Trump 2 to 1. It’s time the Democratic party took ownership for putting HRC on the ballet and losing the election because of it. It was an easy win with a moderate candidate. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/66 "2018-08-10T03:27:22Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > It might violate a user agreement to post as John Smith from Kansas when you are really Yuri Kachenkov from Moscow, but a violation of a user agreement on Facebook is not a violation of the law. Then why does the Internet Research Agency indictment include this paragraph (not to mention multiple references to “false U.S. persona”)? > [@](#): > > Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and creating false U.S. personas, operated social media pages and groups designed to attract U.S. audiences. These groups and pages, which addressed divisive U.S. political and social issues, falsely claimed to be controlled by U.S. activists when, in fact, they were controlled by Defendants. Defendants also used the stolen identities of real U.S. persons to post on ORGANIZATION-controlled social media accounts. Over time, these social > media accounts became Defendants’ means to reach significant numbers of Americans for purposes of interfering with the U.S. political system, including the presidential election of 2016. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/68 "2018-08-10T18:41:50Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > 1. They used public media (Facebook, mostly) to plant disinformation designed to influence voters. > 2. Trump’s campaign asked the Russians for “dirt” on Clinton. It is unclear whether this is “collusion” or not, but getting a foreign intelligence service to help your campaign is questionable at best. I can’t help wondering about disinformation. I used to see Facebook posts all the time about ridiculous urban legends. Don’t people research these “facts”? Maybe people who automatically believe that this is the first month in 500 years to have four Sundays deserve the president they voted for. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/69 "2018-08-11T04:08:29Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > Maybe people who automatically believe that this is the first month in 500 years to have four Sundays deserve the president they voted for. [Moderator Note] Once again, drop the political jabs in this thread. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/70 "2018-08-11T10:49:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > New hypothetical question: > > Elin Suleymanov, the ambassador from the Azerbaijan Republic to the United States, writes the following letter to the Washington Post editorial page, on September 20, 2016: > > "I respectfully urge all United States citizens to consider carefully their choice for President next month. The Azerbaijan Republic strongly believes that a weak, ineffectual president in the White House will destabilize the world stage. Mrs. Clinton’s terrible performance as Secretary of State and her vacillating on key world issues will make the United States lose influence it desperately needs. Donald Trump’s forceful and direct leadership will serve as a needed bridge to the countries that fear lawless strongmen will topple their democratically elected governments. > > “When you vote, citizens of the US, vote for strong leadership that will calm the simmering pot of world tensions. Vote Trump.” > > The Post publishes the letter. > > Is any of that a crime? I don’t whether it is a crime, and probably not, in view of the First Amendment, but an ambassador who published such a letter would cause a major diplomatic ruckus that would get him sent home in a trice. (What form of transport is a trice?) Diplomats are not supposed to intervene in local political matters. The current spat between Saudi and Canada is an example of that, but much more extreme due to the touchiness of the king. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/71 "2018-08-11T10:56:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not clear on what specific activity you’re asking about, but below you can read the indictment of Russian intelligence officers responsible for hacking the DNC and other Democratic organizations. They are charged with illegal entry to computer systems, money laundering, and some other stuff. While they resided abroad, the hacking took place within the U.S. jurisdiction, and the money laundering seems to involve crossing U.S. jurisdiction as well. > > [http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/07/13/gru.indictment.pdf](http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/07/13/gru.indictment.pdf) This just shows that all manner of legislation gets tied up in legal knots due to computers and online communications aka the Internet. Where does a crime take place if it is committed online, with different locations for the criminal and the crime? The USA, among others, is trying to prosecute crimes that took place in the USA - but that is already stretching a definition in many cases due to the use of computers and the vexed question of where data is actually located - by persons outside the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/72 "2018-08-11T11:56:09Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > This just shows that all manner of legislation gets tied up in legal knots due to computers and online communications aka the Internet. Where does a crime take place if it is committed online, with different locations for the criminal and the crime? The USA, among others, is trying to prosecute crimes that took place in the USA - but that is already stretching a definition in many cases due to the use of computers and the vexed question of where data is actually located - by persons outside the USA. It was an issue even before the internet. Remember Manuel Noriega, the President of Panama? I don’t think he ever set foot in the United States before he was indicted by a federal grand jury in Miami for money laundering and drug offenses. [The United States sent 27,000 troops to Panama](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/30/world/americas/manuel-antonio-noriega-dead-panama.html) to arrest him and bring him back to Miami where he was tried and convicted. ---
**Author:** ![Discordian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@Discordian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/73 "2018-08-12T02:25:12Z")
1. They researched what parts of our country were the most critical to achieving electoral success. 2. They targeted social media users in those areas with ads to persuade them to, at the very least, not bother turning out for Hillary. The strategy was built on the fact that the electoral college requires individual states to be won. The EC is not in and of itself a bad thing. Imagine that one large area of the country has terrible weather on election day. That will suppress the voter turnout in that area. But proportionately whoever wins in that area still gets all the EC votes. And if you were confused on the matter, Trump is almost certainly an illegitimate president. ---
**Author:** ![Discordian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@Discordian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/74 "2018-08-12T02:29:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Clinton campaign PAID Russians for dirt which was unsubstantiated. Russians paid Bill Clinton a half million dollars for a speech and 145 million to the Clinton foundation. > > The Trump campaign paid nothing to the Russians and received nothing from the Russians. > > The minuscule amount of money the Russians paid to facebook covered BOTH > parties. Beyond that Hillary outspent Trump 2 to 1. > > It’s time the Democratic party took ownership for putting HRC I strongly suggest that you reexamine the fundamental beliefs surrounding your worldview. And I mean that as politely as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/75 "2018-08-12T03:16:39Z")
I have a question. Was the misinformation the Russians spread any worse than that spread by American politicians such as[Harry Reid lying about Romney not paying taxes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/harry-reid-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes-hes-still-not-sorry/?utm_term=.9a16cacb78f0)? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/76 "2018-08-12T03:35:35Z")
In addition to the misinformation that Russia spread, they allegation is that they hacked into sensitive materials. They may have shared this stolen information with the Trump campaign. They may have also provided financial assistance. It’s not simply a propaganda campaign that was waged. > **[How Russian hackers stole information from Democrats, in 3 simple diagrams](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/16/17575940/russian-election-hack-democrats-trump-putin-diagram)** > > Trump refused to say Russia interfered with US elections. These diagrams show exactly how it did. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/the-nra-spent-dollar30-million-to-elect-trump-was-it-russian-money/amp](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/the-nra-spent-dollar30-million-to-elect-trump-was-it-russian-money/amp) ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/77 "2018-08-12T09:46:48Z")
> [@Discordian](#): > > 1. They researched what parts of our country were the most critical to achieving electoral success. So did the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the third parties,and every campaign manager in America. > [@](#): > > They targeted social media users in those areas So did the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the third parties, and every campaign manager in America > [@](#): > > Trump is almost certainly an illegitimate president. Please grow up and accept the facts. The voters spoke, the system worked exactly as it should; the Electoral College exists, and the guy with the most votes is the legitimate president… I don’t like it either, but the blame lies on the American voters who follow Facebook, not Russian bots who posted there. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/78 "2018-08-12T10:07:42Z")
> [@Discordian](#): > > They targeted social media users in those areas > [@chappachula](#): > > So did the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the third parties, and every campaign manager in America Yes, but when those parties engage in campaigning they’re required to announce who they are. Find me one of those Russian posts that ends with “I’m Vladimir Putin, and I approved this message.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/79 "2018-08-12T12:06:02Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I have a question. > Was the misinformation the Russians spread any worse than that spread by American politicians such as[Harry Reid lying about Romney not paying taxes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/harry-reid-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes-hes-still-not-sorry/?utm_term=.9a16cacb78f0)? That isn’t a factual question, but a political one. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/80 "2018-08-12T13:38:43Z")
> [@Discordian](#): > > And if you were confused on the matter, Trump is almost certainly an illegitimate president. **Moderator Warning** Since I’ve given instructions to avoid political jabs in this thread several times, this is an official warning. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293/81 "2018-08-12T13:41:26Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I have a question. > Was the misinformation the Russians spread any worse than that spread by American politicians such as[Harry Reid lying about Romney not paying taxes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/harry-reid-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes-hes-still-not-sorry/?utm_term=.9a16cacb78f0)? **Moderator Note** This is irrelevant to the question in the OP. Please stick strictly to the subject in the OP. Colibri General Questions Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-the-russians-meddle-in-our-election/819293.md?page=5)