# How did Vader know? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392 "2003-05-10T21:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/21 "2003-05-11T12:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*Hmm. Never considered that. Vader kills all the Jedi, but purposely lets Obi Wan live and escape with his son, hoping his son will live in obscurity on Tatooine and _not_ end up like his dad. Poignant, foreshadows his eventual redemption, gives his character depth and pathos. I like it! > > Needless to say, it’s _not_ going to happen like that in the last movie. \*\* Purposely let Obi Wan live? In the 2 encounters between the two Ben comes out on top. Once because he was simply better and the other time because he understood the nature of the Force better and sacrificed his body. Who knows what would have happened on the Death Star if both Vader and Ben were going all out. Although I would put my money on Obi Wan. And Ben’s line “Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough but your uncle wouldn’t allow it.” certainly seems to imply that Vader was aware of Amidala’s pregnancy. The fact that he didn’t know he had a daughter means he was not present at the birth. Was Ben lying about Anakin’s wishes or simply extrapolating from a comment made before any pregnancy? Sure it’s possible but I see no reason to assume it was so. So I say he did know he was to become a father. And since nine months later there was a little Skywalker being raised by his brother Owen I can’t imagine him not fairly quickly being able to put 1 and 1 together. So why didn’t he kill him? What for? I mean this was his own son and there was still good in Vader. And the odds that Luke might become well trained enough to take on the Vader or the Emperor individually seems extremely remote. Looking at the climax you see that for all the training Luke got he was still hopelessly weak against the pair. The only way he influenced the outcome of the final battle was by failing to turn as he fell to the ground helpless and begged for help. I imagine that for schemeing minds like the Emperor’s he might have preferred to keep the lad alive on the possibility that he could be turned. Vader was strong in the force but broken in body. And if Luke did prove to be too much trouble kill the boy then. Also I don’t think you can find perfect logic in any of the points in these movies. Lucas has many drawbacks and seems quite happy to fudge the facts when it suits him. And we might find out one way or another in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/22 "2003-05-11T12:30:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Goodbeem \* > \*\*Yes, that’s how it should go! **Fern Forest** for scriptwriter. \*\* Actually your kudos belong to Miller. I just extrapolated some evidence from Obi Wan’s lines in episode IV. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/23 "2003-05-11T12:43:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reverse \* > \*\*Maybe Anakin was like a lot of young people and didn’t know that sex could lead to pregnancy? \*\* His conception didn’t have sex involved, so you can almost forgive his ignorance on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/24 "2003-05-11T13:37:00Z")
I think one of the old Marvel comics explored this-Vader had Imperial Intel track down the kid who blew up the Death Star and found out his name was “Skywalker”. Also, when the stormtroopers went to the Lars homestead-Vader probably heard about THAT and put two and two together. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/25 "2003-05-11T15:18:06Z")
So Imperial intelligence could tell him who did it, but couldn’t provide warning that it was going to happen? Or that it had a fatal vulnerability? The bad guys never have good intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/26 "2003-05-11T15:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fern Forest \* > I imagine that for schemeing minds like the Emperor’s he might have preferred to keep the lad alive on the possibility that he could be turned. Vader was strong in the force but broken in body. And if Luke did prove to be too much trouble kill the boy then. Ah yes, and remember why Vader wanted Luke - to usurp the Emperor, and rule the galaxy as father and son. If this was his plan all along, he may not have been able to raise Luke himself, under Palpatine’s oversight. In fact, it may even explain why he left Obi-Wan alive, if he wanted Luke to follow in his footsteps. ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/27 "2003-05-11T18:33:08Z")
Maybe Darth had a tape, just like Lord Helmet? ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/28 "2003-05-11T18:51:58Z")
I’ve also been thining about this. If Luke was the last hope why did Obi Wan leave him in such an open position. In fact he did nothing to hide him at all. Not only did Luke still bear his last name but he was living with his closest living relative whom he called Uncle. Just because Vader is taken by the dark side doesn’t mean that he would never take some effort to know what’s happening in his family. This seems to suggest that Luke was in no danger and Vader was already aware of Luke. Perhaps he had promised Amidala he’d stay away. Thinking about it now the actions of Obi Wan in this case don’t make sense at all. If I were him and pinning my hopes on this boy I’d have dropped Luke off on Degobah long, long ago. Or at the very least moved to a very unlikely planet and raised him under a different name. Why take such a risk? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/29 "2003-05-11T19:58:45Z")
Excellent points **Fern Forest**. Of the millions or billions of planets to hide the kid on, why pick the one where Vader was born? Maybe this gets explained in a satisfactory manner in Ep 3. Ha ha! ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/30 "2003-05-11T21:14:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > **His conception didn’t have sex involved…** Correct. She got pregnant by smoking marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/31 "2003-05-11T22:55:33Z")
I don’t think anyone in the _Star Wars_ universe **does** have sex. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/32 "2003-05-12T00:05:08Z")
Yes it does, **tracer**. Read the _X-Wing_ series. Or my fan fictions. 😉 From what I gather, Vader would most likely have not returned to Tatooine-being far too bitter about what happened to his mother. Also, his step-brother, Owen, and Beru, weren’t really a threat to him. But I guess we’ll find out in Episode III\> (Hmmm, maybe someone tells Vader that his son died as a baby, or something…interesting!) ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/33 "2003-05-12T01:30:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > \*\*Because on Tatooine, the name _Skywalker_ is as common as Johnson is in the US. You can’t swing a dead womp rat without hitting a damn Skywalker. \*\* Hello! 1.) Will you marry me? I’m decently good looking, will dress up as Princess L or Queen A anytime you like, and will watch SW movies in an endless loop for days and weeks at a time. 2.) Can I have the above as a sig line? 3.) OK, I’m already married, but if I weren’t, you’d be first on my list. Zette ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/34 "2003-05-12T02:27:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fern Forest \* > \*\*Missing word in your sig Skott. \*\* Actually, just a letter, but thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/35 "2003-05-12T02:50:02Z")
Sorry, forgot to include my comments: From what I understand, Star Wars was originally written to be a trilogy, but Lucas could not get backing for three films, so he condensed it into one (which you can tell, since there was only supposed to be one Death Star that was destroyed at the end of third film). However, with the success of the film, sequels were necessary and some continuity things got messed up. Kind of the same thing happened with Back to the Future. Robert Zemekis said that if he had know that there would be sequels, he wouldn’t have written himself into a corner with several things (e.g. Jennifer going to the future with them). ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/36 "2003-05-12T02:54:44Z")
(semi-facetious musing) Vader wants to be redeemed, he wants to come back from the dark side, but he just can’t bring himself to do it. He instead pulls a passive-agressive maneuver in the hopes that his son will one day save him from himself. He knows of Luke’s existence (maybe Leia’s as well, but I don’t know), and deliberately lets him be taken away by Obi-Wan. As the Empire grows in power, he falls further and further into the dark side as Palpatine’s willing and loyal servant, but somewhere deep in the back of his subconscious is the knowledge that his son is out there and will be coming for him someday. He doesn’t deliberately avoid sweeping Tattooine or hunting down Obi-Wan, he simply lets himself forget that they even exist. When Luke, Obi-Wan and the others first arrive on the Death Star, Vader is torn. Consciously, he wants to destroy them and eliminate the threat to the Empire’s new superweapon. Unconsciously, however, he wants them (Luke, at least) to get away so that one day Luke can fulfill his destiny. He arrives at a comprimise: he lets them escape, saying they will lead the Empire to the rebellion headquarters (had he killed Luke, Han, etc., the rebellion would be helpless to stop the Death Star, and the Empire could hunt them down at leisure). By doing so, Vader is unconsciously provoking an unnecessary crisis to get what he wants. Very passive-aggressive. Later, when the rebels are attacking the Death Star, Vader secretly wants his son to succeed, but knows that if he (Vader) is simply blown up with the billion other Imperial droogs on board, he will die still firmly in the grip of the Dark Side. He therefore takes off in his own fighter to “take care of the rebels himself”. If he succeeds and the rebels fail, he’s the brave leader who goes into the front lines himself. If he fails and the Death Star is destroyed, he survives to one day face his son in their big encouter. Luke isn’t the Rebllion’s last hope, he’s Vader’s last hope. (My browser’s acting snotty when I try to preview, so please forgive any missing or tyops) ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/37 "2003-05-12T03:48:40Z")
Every time I see her name spelled _Amydala_, I think _amygdala_, and suddenly the cute young senator becomes a little pink brain organ on legs, wearing a torn white bodysuit. Or she turns into the Queen Amidala smiley… except it’s not a yellow smiley, but a little pink brain organ. It makes the movie a little more surreal. It also makes me wonder if there’s a person out there named Amy G. Dala. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/38 "2003-05-12T04:18:32Z")
Annikan: I had sex with Amidala! Emperor: Yeah, right! And next you will be telling me you are having a kid! Like your sand pickup lines would work on anyone. Quit wasting my time on your lies and get to dark side training! And who do you all think will be the “shock” real father of Annikan? I’m voting Jar Jar… ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/39 "2003-05-12T04:59:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Annikan: I had sex with Amidala! > Emperor: Yeah, right! And next you will be telling me you are having a kid! Like your sand pickup lines would work on anyone. Quit wasting my time on your lies and get to dark side training! > > And who do you all think will be the “shock” real father of Annikan? I’m voting Jar Jar… \*\* **NO.**. In Ep III, Jar Jar is tortured to death with the device used on Han Solo in ESB. Please, Mr. Lucas? ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392/40 "2003-05-12T05:42:44Z")
Kill Jar Jar? And have all that [marketing](http://www.theonion.com/onion3527/jarjar_merchandise.html) go to waste? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-vader-know/174392.md?page=3)