# "How Did We Become Bitter Political Enemies?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112 "2017-06-16T13:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/401 "2017-06-20T19:09:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > For a long time, I’ve heard leftists express frustration at Republicans for “voting against their own self-interest” (as near as I can tell, it really got started with that ‘What’s the Matter with Kansas?’ book). Here, you seem to be acknowledging that a vote against climate change probably is _not_ one against their own self interest, at least if they live in the American heartland. Doesn’t your side _want_ people to vote in their own self interest? That’s at least the impression I was left with in all those years since the book came out. Well, parts of Texas showed (even Rick Perry out of all people helped on that effort) that it is in the self interest of the people to develop solar and wind power. In Kansas, even with the lack of help the new industries are getting they do look at the long view, and it is not just the long view of climate change. > **[Soaking up some solar: Kansas power cooperative takes dive into solar energy](https://www.cjonline.com/story/business/2017/03/10/soaking-some-solar-kansas-power-cooperative-takes-dive-solar-energy/16552273007/)** > > A Kansas power cooperative took a deep dive into solar energy, and its first solar farm capable of outputting energy to supply the needs of about 164 homes will be dedicated next week. > Kansas Elect… > [@](#): > > A Kansas power cooperative took a deep dive into solar energy, and its first solar farm capable of outputting energy to supply the needs of about 164 homes will be dedicated next week. > > Kansas Electric Power Cooperative Inc. built Prairie Sky Solar, a utility-scale 1 megawatt solar electricity generating facility located near Andover. Although tackling green energy projects typically comes with a cost, Mark Barbee, KEPCo’s vice president of engineering, said this one won’t raise energy rates and “gave us the experience and gets us exposure to solar.” > > “This solar project will reduce our (power) purchases from Westar. Our analysis shows that this project is basically a wash,” he said. “We’re going to have a small net benefit to this, versus purchasing the power. Really the reason we did it is we see solar coming, we wanted to address our members’ interest in solar, and we wanted to learn about it in sort of almost a demonstration project. But most important is the realization that as you always like to point out, things like pulling out of the PA are things that while they are depending on the whim or ignorance of Trump they are indeed whims that are not likely to remain in place for long. > [@](#): > > Despite the push for a return to coal power from the current federal administration, Wages said utilities look far into the future when making plans. > > “What we’re hearing about nationally is what you see in the news. With the change in administration, it appears that President (Donald) Trump is going to try to relax the regulations on coal-fired generation,” Wages said. **“Whether or not that happens, utilities plan not short-term but long-term. And we really cannot plan on changes in regulation as a presidential administration changes. So we have to look 10, 20, 30 years out to the future, and we see renewable energy increasing in importance of utility choice of generation.”** > > “KEPCo has a very favorable environmentally friendly portfolio of resources as it is,” Barbee added. “Over 50 percent of our annual energy requirements come from non-greenhouse gas emitting resources.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/402 "2017-06-20T19:29:05Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > … it is in the self interest of the people to develop solar and wind power. If wind and solar really are economic winners, then you have nothing to fear. Sit back, relax, and let capitalism do the rest. No need for an accord in Paris or Kyoto or anywhere else, the invisible hand will take care of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/403 "2017-06-20T19:33:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If wind and solar really are economic winners, then you have nothing to fear. Sit back, relax, and let capitalism do the rest. No need for an accord in Paris or Kyoto or anywhere else, the invisible hand will take care of it. Same can be said of the fossil fuel industry, right? No need for subsidies or tax breaks. Just let the market sort it out. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/404 "2017-06-20T19:37:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Same can be said of the fossil fuel industry, right? No need for subsidies or tax breaks. Just let the market sort it out. Generally that’s my preferred approach. Maybe we could work on eliminating federal subsidies and tax breaks as part of the Republicans tax reform effort. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/405 "2017-06-20T19:39:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m glad we agree on this point. If my state tries to raise my taxes, I can fight that at the state level. I’ll be on the other side of that battle, as I like things like public education, police, fire and public health services. Will you also fight a reduction in services? If the state cuts funding to your local schools, or cuts funding to your police and fire, or reduces the maintenance on your roads and bridges, will those be fine with you, or will you be upset that these services are being reduced? > [@](#): > > Sounds like another point of agreement then. Not sure about that. I am a bit more pessimistic about how people will react when they are told that they need to lay down and die. That is something that is not taken into account in climate data. > [@](#): > > Here I think we may just have different opinions on what’s reasonably likely, but that’s ok. I’m not terribly interested in spending time trying to persuade you away from thinking this scenario is “not an unreasonably unlikely outcome”. I have said that it is unlikely, I am just saying that it is not so unreasonably likely that we should just discount it altogether, or to chide those who take pessimistic positions on the outcome of global warming as though they are woefully misinformed. I am also saying that it is far more likely that these doomsday scenarios come to pass than the “everything will be fine” scenarios that your side is pushing, whether it be due to the chinese perpetuation a hoax, or god’s promise to clean up our mess, or trump’s promise that if your island has been there for hundreds of years, it will be there for hundreds of years more. These are the people who are denying the reality of climate change entirely and are actually the ones making policy and law. These are the people who will actually make a difference in whether or not we respond effectively to the threats in front of us. I have yet to see you denounce these truly poorly informed positions of those you have voted for or those who were voted for by those of your ideological side. > [@](#): > > I’ll take part of the blame for the confusion here. I wasn’t ‘calling out children’, but in my original post on the subject, I called him “that Democrat kid”, which probably led to this portion of your response. To be clear, I was referring to [this incident](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donna-brazile-democratic-national-committee_us_5824cb95e4b0ddd4fe7954e8) (which I thought was better-known than it apparently was). HuffPo called him 'a [DNC] staffer identified only as Zach". The quote in the article is: > Zach is most likely a young adult (I try to not make a habit of ‘calling out children’). He also seems to be horribly misinformed, despite the fact that he was a DNC employee. What went wrong here? He certainly wasn’t in a Fox News bubble, and yet, he seems to sincerely believe that life expectancy is going to drop 40 years in his lifetime (no wonder he’s angry at Donna Brazille, I’d be pissed too if I believed that). Why weren’t all those fact-focused people he worked for & with able to help him get in touch with reality? Fair enough, I understand that, I think of anyone under 30 as a kid anymore. I was picturing, however, a much smaller actual child in the exchange. So, a “kid” in his 20’s or so, being pessimistic about the options in his future. A future of which he has no control, but is talking to one of the people who actually does have influence. Maybe it was hyperbole, maybe it was sincere belief, but your response to him isn’t that everything will be fine, your response would be “No, humanity will not be wiped out, you will probably be among the survivors. We will simply need to change our life style massively in order to survive the new paradigm, and count ourselves lucky that we were not among the hundreds of millions who died in rather unpleasant ways.” It’s as if I tell a smoker that smoking will kill them. And they respond that I am hyperbolic because only a small fraction of smokers die from lung cancer. > [@](#): > > For a long time, I’ve heard leftists express frustration at Republicans for “voting against their own self-interest” (as near as I can tell, it really got started with that ‘What’s the Matter with Kansas?’ book). Here, you seem to be acknowledging that a vote against climate change probably is _not_ one against their own self interest, at least if they live in the American heartland. Doesn’t your side _want_ people to vote in their own self interest? That’s at least the impression I was left with in all those years since the book came out. There’s short sighted selfish self interest, and then there is long term, enlightened self interest. When we talk about people voting against their own best interests, it is usually taking into account both of those. For instance, an ex-coal minor who is on ACA or medicaid. If he votes for the republican, they are not going to bring his job back, he is going to have difficulty getting retrained for a new job in another industry with the republicans cutting $350million on the funding for the Appalachian Regional Commission, if he does manage to get a coal job, it’ll be at lower pay with fewer safety regulations, and he will not have health insurance. All outcomes, both short term and long term, both personal and community wide are poorer under the policies espoused by the republicans. That is what we mean when we say they are voting against their best interests. By voting for people who will do something to help to ameliorate climate change, I may be voting against my personal extremely short term best interest. If I was all about “Me, me, me, now, now, now!” I would vote differently, I would vote for the politician that told me that he was going to give me what I want, regardless of the consequences to others or to the future. I might manage to save a couple of bucks a year on my taxes in exchange for living in a much poorer country and world. Doesn’t seem a good deal. But there is more to self interest than personal extremely short term interest. I want to live in a country that I can be proud of, that treats its citizens well, provides education and opportunities for even the least among us, that takes its leadership role in the world seriously, that helps to safeguard and provide stewardship over the limited resources. This is in my self interest, as even though I don’t have kids, I do have nieces and nephews that share enough genetic similarity to myself that I can more or less assume them as a legacy. Failing even that, I consider humanity as a whole as a species worth protecting and advancing. Being among the survivors, when you could have prevented the catastrophe in the first place, is not what I consider to be a good outcome of self interest. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/406 "2017-06-20T19:42:58Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > “Enablers” might be a better term. > > The problem is that these traits sound dangerously close to “paranoid fascist simpleton.” At the very least, it describes an extreme rigidity and resistance to change where any perceived deviation from the status quo is considered a “potential threat” to be met with the un-nuanced answer of “guns”. “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the climatologists.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/407 "2017-06-20T19:44:18Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > then why all the vitriol toward the voters? Democrats seem to be taking it out on the victims. Because when the crazy man on the radio lies to you about a pizza place running a pedophile ring in their basement, and you go and shoot up the place, _at some point you can’t blame the crazy man_. Alex Jones didn’t get Trump elected. The millions of fucking duncecaps who listen to him did. Culpability lies, ultimately, with the voter. I saw through those lies. The majority of the electorate saw through most of them. Why couldn’t they? What’s so goddamn hard about it? > [@](#): > > so, what do we do about this to make sure it doesn’t happen again? The truly perverse part here is that the people who _need_ to fix this mess are the people with no clear incentive or ability to do so. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/408 "2017-06-20T19:51:29Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the climatologists.” I think this post & username combination should win some sort of award. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/409 "2017-06-20T19:56:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If wind and solar really are economic winners, then you have nothing to fear. Sit back, relax, and let capitalism do the rest. No need for an accord in Paris or Kyoto or anywhere else, the invisible hand will take care of it. And here you only show that you did not learn one important lesson from all the scientists and economists. Government is a big piece of the solution puzzle that will get us there sooner rather than later… …and it will be late and then more costly to all with Trump and minions at the helm. You are also missing the evidence that shows that, even when **it is not really a benefit** for the whole of America nor the states that are involved, Trump and minions are using the government to pick the winners and losers in this issue. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/410 "2017-06-20T20:01:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And here you only show that you did not learn one important lesson from all the scientists and economists. Government is a big piece of the solution puzzle that will get us there sooner rather than later… > > …and it will be late and then more costly to all with Trump and minions at the helm. > > You are also missing the evidence that shows that even when it is not really a benefit for the whole of America nor the states that are involved Trump and minions are using the government to pick the winners and losers in this issue. This sounds like you’re saying that wind and solar aren’t economical yet, that they need government subsidies to be competitive. Am I misunderstanding you? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/411 "2017-06-20T20:02:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If wind and solar really are economic winners, then you have nothing to fear. Sit back, relax, and let capitalism do the rest. No need for an accord in Paris or Kyoto or anywhere else, the invisible hand will take care of it. Except that it seems like a fair number of Conservatives have now decided that the fossil fuel industry represents Conservative values while the renewable energy industry represents Liberal values. So instead of a reasonable conversation about how we perform a controlled transition from a fossil fuel based economy to one based on renewable energy, it becomes more about picking “sides” like they are watching the Red Sox play the Yankees. > [@Budget Player Cadet](#): > > I saw through those lies. The majority of the electorate saw through most of them. Why couldn’t they? What’s so goddamn hard about it? “You do your best, you try to serve the people, and then they just fuck you over. And you know why? Because they’re ignorant, and they’re dumb as shit. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is democracy.” -President Selena Meyer, Veep ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/412 "2017-06-20T20:03:36Z")
Really, the government right now is being shaped to be a benefit just for the robber barons, by robber barons. And the sad thing is that Teddy Roosevelt is not the Republican president. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/413 "2017-06-20T20:06:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re saying that wind and solar aren’t economical yet, that they need government subsidies to be competitive. Am I misunderstanding you? There’s a number of industries and businesses in the US that receive subsidies of various forms. Why single out wind and solar? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/414 "2017-06-20T20:10:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re saying that wind and solar aren’t economical yet, that they need government subsidies to be competitive. Am I misunderstanding you? :rolleyes: As usual you are getting it backwards, coal and other fossil fuels are becoming less competitive, Besides that,the evidence still points to our need to reduce emissions. Solar and wind are competitive indeed (you did not read the Kansas cite?) but the situation right now\*\* is just about even\*\* because of the costs to bring solar power facilities into the grid. The point here is clear, we need the government to help solar a bit to accelerate the change and reduce the chances of bad scenarios becoming reality. Doing the very stupid thing that Trump is doing by facilitating coal is not what we all should be doing. Really, what we got by electing Trump was a government that right now is being shaped to be a benefit just for the robber barons, by robber barons. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/415 "2017-06-20T20:11:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As John Oliver showed, > > …So in essence, you still need to get better sources of information. (post shortened) John Oliver? The comedian? Seriously? Do people actually accept the humorous, funny, twisted, biased, crude jokes and stories comedians tell to their target audiences as unquestionable facts? Little wonder a thread was started asking “How Did We Become Bitter Political Enemies?” If some people actually chose to get their “news” from comedians, those people are probably already beyond reason. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/416 "2017-06-20T20:12:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > John Oliver? The comedian? Seriously? Do people actually accept the humorous, funny, twisted, biased, crude jokes and stories comedians tell to their target audiences as unquestionable facts? > > Little wonder a thread was started asking “How Did We Become Bitter Political Enemies?” If some people actually chose to get their “news” from comedians, those people are probably already beyond reason. Right! People laugh at Breitbart, but it isn’t TRYING to be humorous! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/417 "2017-06-20T20:13:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Generally that’s my preferred approach. Maybe we could work on eliminating federal subsidies and tax breaks as part of the Republicans tax reform effort. And if you believe the republican party will actually _do_ that, _you are part of the problem_. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re saying that wind and solar aren’t economical yet, that they need government subsidies to be competitive. Am I misunderstanding you? Well, it doesn’t help that their main competition has extremely costly and dangerous externalities that they don’t have to worry about. When we refuse to factor in the cost of CO2 pollution to the environment, it’s the equivalent of the government giving a _massive_ subsidy to the fossil fuel industry. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/418 "2017-06-20T20:13:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Except that it seems like a fair number of Conservatives have now decided that the fossil fuel industry represents Conservative values while the renewable energy industry represents Liberal values. So instead of a reasonable conversation about how we perform a controlled transition from a fossil fuel based economy to one based on renewable energy, it becomes more about picking “sides” like they are watching the Red Sox play the Yankees. I’m a conservative, but I don’t feel that way. I’d _love_ for solar panels to provide an easy and cheap alternative to paying my power bill every month. I just don’t think they do yet, in reality. It’d be great if Tesla makes solar roof shingles that are cheaper and better than traditional roofing (even greater if they did it without government subsidies). I just don’t think they are yet. Most conservatives I know think along those lines too, but I can’t claim that my personal contacts represent more than a tiny fraction of conservatives. Where are you getting “a fair number of Conservatives” from? Personal acquaintances? Your interactions on the Internet? Public polling? Extrapolating from election results? Do you think that your post about ‘a fair number’ of conservatives represents the dominant opinion on the right? A majority viewpoint? A minority? A fringe element? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/419 "2017-06-20T20:14:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If wind and solar really are economic winners, then you have nothing to fear. Sit back, relax, and let capitalism do the rest. No need for an accord in Paris or Kyoto or anywhere else, the invisible hand will take care of it. Not if coal and oil and other fossil fuels are subsidized by the govt. And they must be. They require land, specific land that has coal or oil under it in order to function. You were excited that Bear’s Ear was being rededicated to be developed for oil and gas drilling. This is a give away from the govt to the oil and gas industry. Would you have been as excited about it if it were to be given away for solar or wind power? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112/420 "2017-06-20T20:14:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Little wonder a thread was started asking “How Did We Become Bitter Political Enemies?” If some people actually chose to get their “news” from comedians, those people are probably already beyond reason. From your lips to Fox News audience ears. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-become-bitter-political-enemies/789112.md?page=22)