# How did we figure out that cows' milk would be good for us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 6, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515 "2002-08-06T00:53:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Flamsterette\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@Flamsterette\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flamsterette_X)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/1 "2002-08-06T00:53:54Z")
I was talking to **Spoz** earlier this afternoon, and he said that someone had mentioned this recently to him; it was “a real puzzler,” in his words. Certainly I had no idea, even though (according to him) I’m a bit of a trivia nut, and am a good source of useless information. So I thought of asking you guys the question, because there just has to be SOME people around here that can give us (leads to) an answer. (he got me curious, too… what can I say?) This is what he said to me: > [@](#): > > ok… here’s a puzzler here for ya… somebody mentioned this recently… and it really get’s ya thinkin’… how the HELL did we figure that cows milk would be good to drink? and who wuz crazy enough to be the first to try and milk one?? coz when you think about it… it’s really very ODD… makes ya think doesn’t it? Thanks to all who answer, as we’ll really appreciate it. 🙂 F\_X ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/2 "2002-08-06T01:54:33Z")
my favourite calvin and hobbes. calvin wonders: “who ever thought: i’ll drink what ever comes out of that cow.” or words to that effect. wild guess: near as i can figure, some poor cave man noticed that moo moo the oxling would drink from mama ox’s parts. (and what ever is good for moo moo is good for thog.) thog may also have noticed that brother oog drank from thier mama’s parts. adding parts to parts, he tries milking mama ox, as thog’s mama was saving up for oog and wouldn’t let him near her. much easier to milk mama ox than mama saber tooth tiger. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/3 "2002-08-06T02:49:11Z")
Nice try. Except, an ox is specifically a _castrated male_ of the bovine species. So whatever Oog was drinking, it wasn’t milk! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/4 "2002-08-06T02:50:18Z")
I always assumed that Early Man was much the same as Late Man, in that there’s always someone in the group who will try anything once. “Can you eat this, drink this, what does this taste like?” Sometimes they’re weeded out of the gene pool when the new taste sensation turns out to be toxic, but every so often, as with cow’s milk I suppose, they get it right. And then there’s no living with them… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/5 "2002-08-06T03:08:56Z")
And what about eggs? “Let’s eat what just came out of this bird’s butt.” _Right…_ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/6 "2002-08-06T04:48:44Z")
Hell, milk I can understand. It’s _cheese_ that puzzles me. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/7 "2002-08-06T04:52:10Z")
OK close your eyes and imagine you’ve never seen it before–now, eat a banana. ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/8 "2002-08-06T05:26:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > \*\*Hell, milk I can understand. It’s _cheese_ that puzzles me. \*\* i am totally with you on this one. is that bachelor’s instinct at work, or what? “Hmmm, this milk pouch of mine seems to have gone solid. Og eat?” jb ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/9 "2002-08-06T07:46:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AWB \* > \*\*And what about eggs? “Let’s eat what just came out of this bird’s butt.” _Right…_ \*\* Bird’s _butt_? ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/10 "2002-08-06T08:22:18Z")
Bread is the thing that has always puzzled me. Yeah, I can see random yeast spores (is it spores?) settling on some sort of ground grain porridge and making it rise… but how did Mrs. Og figure out what caused the effect, and how to replicate it? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/11 "2002-08-06T09:55:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\* > > Bird’s _butt_? \*\* Yep. Eggs come out of a chicken’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/12 "2002-08-06T09:56:07Z")
re: bird’s butt? sorry to say, but yeah. i believe chickens have cloacae, like most birds and reptiles. one common urinary, defecatory, and reproductive orifice. and **squish** , i think once humans discover a food ingredient, they try it all over the place. so it may be that yeast was isolated for beer or something, and someog discovered that it made great bread, too. perhaps the question is who the fuck cultivated yeast spores (i’m not sure if they are spores) in the first place, and why? i mean, back in the days before fleishmann’s, people used to keep yeast cultures in their kitchens! jb ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/13 "2002-08-06T10:02:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\* > > Bird’s _butt_? \*\* Yup, (most)birds have a common orifice (called the _Cloaca_) which handles reproductive and excretory functions. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/14 "2002-08-06T10:09:42Z")
It’s possible to make bread without yeast; it’s not at all improbably that somebody made some dough for some kind of unleavened flatbread, but was interrupted(by some crisis or other) before they could bake it; in a time when food wasn’t plentiful enough to be wasted, they would almost certainly still attempt to bake the dough later, by which time natural yeasts would have cultured in it. ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/15 "2002-08-06T10:12:00Z")
right, but they wouldn’t have collected and saved the yeast from the moldy dough before baking. jb ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/16 "2002-08-06T10:27:14Z")
They wouldn’t need to; it’s not like they had clean stainless steel work surfaces or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ssarl\_the\_happy\_Martian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ssarl\_the\_happy\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssarl_the_happy_Martian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/17 "2002-08-06T10:35:56Z")
Well, here’s a thought… The fact that all human babies drink milk! It’s not that hard to figure out that other specie’s milk might be alright for you (especially for babies of women with problems making their own). Eventually, somebody would have figured that adults can benefti from it too without TOO much of a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Rhapsody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@Rhapsody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhapsody)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/18 "2002-08-06T10:55:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, here’s a thought… > The fact that all human babies drink milk! Thats what I was thinking. The first human to drink milk from another animal was probably a baby who lost its mother or whose mother was having trouble nursing. Eggs are a favorite for so many animals it is not at all surprising that a human would have pondered their popularity. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/19 "2002-08-06T11:10:10Z")
1.) I have long ago come to the conclusion that people will eat/drink just about anything with nonzero taste. It’s not surprising that they ate the things listed above. Me, I’m amazed that people found out the medicinal effects of certain herbs – to know wjhich ones were good, a lot of people had to eat a lot of ones that had no effect, or were bad. 2.) I can easily see some people drinking milk. As noted above, there’s an easy analogy with human milk. People drink goat’s milk, too, after all, and water buffalo milk products. I’ve been told that certain tribes even drink horse milk. What’s surprising to me is that milk drinking caught on in a big way even though mosdt of the population must have been lactose-intolerant. We all start out lactose-tolerant, but eventually most people in certain groups that traditionally don’t raise cattle lose the ability to break down lactose, with unfortunate gastric results that a lot of folks on this board are familiar with. People must have kept at it until they self-selected for those able to metabolize lactose. To me, the stick-to-it-iveness required for that is remarkable. As Marvin Harris notes in his book **Good to Eat/The Sacred Cow and the Abominable Pig** , theChinese, American Indians, and many African people are generally lactose-intolerant, which explains the lack of dairy in their cuisine. But it’s hard to imagine Indian and European food without it. 3.) Cheese I can easily understand . The traditional story is that cheese first formed in a pouch made from an animal’s stomach used to carry milk. The rennet remaining in the stomach caused the milk to curdle and formed a cheese. If I were the unfortunate who carried this and had no other food, I’d try it before tossing it out. Once I found that the damned stuff would _keep_ (in a world where most food-- especially dairy products – spoiled _fast_), I’d be making it all the time. 4.) As far as bread goes, we can see a natural progression. The grain was originally threshed or ground, mixed with water, and became porridge. Baked porridge became unleavened bread – kinda like crackers or matzoh. One theory I’ve heard had it that some cook left the bread dough he/sge’d been working with overnight and came back in the morning to find that natural yeast had settled on it, making it rise. Rather than throw it out, they tried baking the “spoiled” dough, and discovered modern “bread”. I’ve no doubt that this discovery was made over and over again. 5.) Eggs are even easier to understand – lots of animals eat eggs. If people have no instincts for this, they could certainly see other animals eat them. And eggs don’t run very fast. So it would be easy to get them from a nest abandoned by a scared-off mother. The yolk of the egg, like the bulk of the grains we eat, is really stored nutrition for the growing chick or seed. As with the case of milk and honey, we’re taking the nutrition originally intended to nurture the young of something else. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515/20 "2002-08-06T11:28:09Z")
**CalMeacham** , I agree. Anything we see another mammal eat is liable to get a taste test. (Things that get rejected are things that make us sick, or taste horrible, though. Like acorns, pine needles, or grass.) What little’s to be added is that many of the people who made these discoveries must have been starving, children, or insane. People often won’t try new food, even if they’re at the point of starvation. As I recall, there were whole French villages during the Middle Ages that starved to death while there was an abundance of perfectly edible vegetables around, because “people didn’t eat that”. At the other extreme are people who’ll eat bark, paper, leather–basically anything they can put in their mouth when they get hungry. But this is desperation. Children, of course, eat all kinds of things. If some child had a passion for a particular thing, and never got sick, the adults must have started wondering why. How insanity gets into it, is that somebody who’s insane may eat almost anything. I remember trying to talk a vagrant at a bus stop out of eating tobacco. He was convinced it was good food. Up until 100 years ago most new foods were regarded with considerable suspicion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-figure-out-that-cows-milk-would-be-good-for-us/122515.md?page=2)