# How did we get multiple oceans? Why isn't it just one? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476 "2017-06-20T20:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/21 "2017-06-21T03:10:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Just like how Europe, Asia, and the Middle East are all linked together as one big landmass, but it’s still better to sub-divide for convenience. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Convenient for Europeans. If any other group were dividing things up, it would almost certainly be divided differently, if it was divided up at all. Eurforgetting Eurasia. Both of you. Other than that, there’s various other lumper-splitter positions. Africa is almost always considered a separate continent, but, historically, the Mediterranean has had periods of being mostly dry and there’s the Suez in any case, which links it to That Massive Landmass What Most People Live On. To take a different tack, India is often referred to as a subcontinent, or The Subcontinent, and just splitting it out into the Indian Continent with the Himalayas as a dividing line would make more sense than pretending the Urals form an impenetrable barrier. That plan would also make Asia impeccable. Similarly, there’s the division line between North and South America, or you can decline to split them and refer, indifferently, to The Americas or The New World. If you’re a splitter, you can talk about Central America, which is usually not a continent or a subcontinent or a Subcontinent, but instead a “region” or similar, and debate whether it includes Mexico, or whether it would include Colombia had history gone differently. Mercator gets the blame for making people think Greenland should be a continent, but having Oceania instead of Australia is a bit omnium-gatherum for my tastes, grabbing a bunch of the South Pacific and breaking the notion that continents are at least somewhat unified landmasses. Meanwhile, the geologists are all off studying the real movers and shakers, and dividing up the world along the real dividing lines, mostly hidden from view. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/22 "2017-06-21T03:24:29Z")
There have, in fact, been multiple discrete times when all or almost all of the continents have been joined. Pangaea was the most recent, but before that there was Gondwanaland, and there were others before that, too. EDIT: > [@](#): > > …but having Oceania instead of Australia is a bit omnium-gatherum for my tastes, grabbing a bunch of the South Pacific and breaking the notion that continents are at least somewhat unified landmasses. But Oceania is in fact a somewhat unified landmass. All of those little islands are on the same plate as Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/23 "2017-06-21T05:51:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > EDIT: > > But Oceania is in fact a somewhat unified landmass. All of those little islands are on the same plate as Australia. If we define continents by plates, we’ll have to split and merge a lot of landmasses which are pretty unambiguously continents to most people. After all, humans somehow managed to avoid drawing our political-cultural lines along the most recent set of major crustal fragmentation lines, and the oceans don’t necessarily respect them, either. The definition of ‘continent’ is like the definition of ‘planet’: Tantalizingly simple and within your grasp until you look more closely at any given definition and what it includes and excludes, at which point it dances away to just out of your reach. At least with ‘planet’, you can kind of punt and reframe the classification into rockball/iceball/gasball, and then grade gasballs by how hot they are, whereas once you abandon the notion of continent you end up with less-satisfying categories like ‘landmass’ and ‘region’. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/24 "2017-06-21T06:35:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I met a guy from South Africa at work a couple of years ago and mentioned that I’d had a dream of standing at the southern tip of Africa, looking out at the ocean. He said that you really could see the Indian and Atlantic Oceans meet. I think he said the two oceans had different currents. Where the two oceans meet ([Cape Agulhas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Agulhas), true southern tip of Africa) and where the two currents intersect (usually located more-or-less off [Cape Point](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Point), where a lot more tourists end up, _mistakenly_ thinking it’s the southernmost tip) are two entirely different places, 4 hours car drive apart. There’s no distinct change at Agulhas, it’s one continuous vista. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/25 "2017-06-21T07:09:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The Southern Ocean is catching on for the band of water around Antarctica. It’s also called the Antarctic Ocean. When I was kid they made sure to tell us there wasn’t an Antarctic Ocean as once suspected to be similar to the Arctic Ocean flowing under an ice cap. > [@bibliophage](#): > > The International Hydrographic Organization (IHO)… one edition of their document [Limits of Oceans and Seas](https://epic.awi.de/29772/1/IHO1953a.pdf) (PDF). I’m not sure if that’s the most up-to-date edition. I gather that the term “Southern Ocean” as above, has been widely in unofficial use for a very long time – even if long rejected in official terms (the abovementioned 1953 IHO document stipulates no “Southern Ocean”, and emphasises Atlantic / Pacific / Indian as going right down south to Antarctica). I recall from Eric Newby’s book _The Last Grain Race_, recounting his experiences as a crew member in 1938 / 39 on one of the then few remaining big commercial sailing ships, making a return voyage Britain – South Australia: frequent references by the ship’s company to the “Southern Ocean”, in which they spent much time. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/26 "2017-06-21T07:25:21Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Columbus was famously named “Admiral of the Ocean Sea”, meaning at that time “Ocean” meant the wild and woolly waters that weren’t part of a particular enclosed sea. Not quite. His title was _almirante de la mar océana_: each _océano_ is the pieces we call Ocean, but _la mar océana_ is one of several expressions meaning all the seas of the world, (f) because that’s how sailors personify her. _Los siete mares_ (the seven seas), _el océano_ with no further specification, _los mares_ (the seas), _el mar_ or _la mar_ (the sea)… also mean the whole of the world’s salty waters. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/27 "2017-06-21T09:38:47Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > I gather that the term “Southern Ocean” as above, has been widely in unofficial use for a very long time – even if long rejected in official terms (the abovementioned 1953 IHO document stipulates no “Southern Ocean”, and emphasises Atlantic / Pacific / Indian as going right down south to Antarctica). I recall from Eric Newby’s book _The Last Grain Race_, recounting his experiences as a crew member in 1938 / 39 on one of the then few remaining big commercial sailing ships, making a return voyage Britain – South Australia: frequent references by the ship’s company to the “Southern Ocean”, in which they spent much time. IHO adopted Southern Ocean (as opposed to Antarctic Ocean) by responding majority vote in the 2002 draft delineation, but that’s never been formally published - although the hold-up is more about picayune shit like the Sea of Japan, not the Southern Ocean itself (Australia’s fucked-up i[diosyncratic definition](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/21/1071941610556.html)notwithstanding), so I think we could say it’s as close to official as we need, as several organizations use that definition as a de facto standard, and more are catching on every year. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/28 "2017-06-21T13:15:31Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Eurforgetting Eurasia. Both of you. What am I “forgetting” about it? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/29 "2017-06-21T13:22:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Derleth** : > > At least with ‘planet’, you can kind of punt and reframe the classification into rockball/iceball/gasball, and then grade gasballs by how hot they are… Yay, my classification is catching on! ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/30 "2017-06-21T14:35:52Z")
Simon Winchester discusses the IHO and its history a bit in his book “Atlantic.” It’s a fun book if you haven’t read it already. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/31 "2017-06-22T04:13:14Z")
What’s interesting to me is that if ocean definitions are arbitrary then so are continental divides. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/32 "2017-06-22T04:23:14Z")
Well, to an extent. Some people might call one point the boundary between oceans, and some might call it some other point, perhaps as much as a few hundred miles away. But in almost all cases, that’s only going to affect a little bit at the end of the divide: Most of it will still be in the same place. And that’s just for the ocean divides, too. Some divides are defined in terms of rivers (like the Great Lakes/Mississippi divide that runs through Akron, OH), and those don’t have that same sort of ambiguity at all. I don’t think that there’s any reasonable definition of the ocean boundaries that changes the location of any portion of any continental divide within the US by so much as an inch. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/33 "2017-06-23T18:43:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There have, in fact, been multiple discrete times when all or almost all of the continents have been joined. Pangaea was the most recent, but before that there was Gondwanaland, and there were others before that, too. Quite a few, for the curious: [List of supercontinents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supercontinents) ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/34 "2017-06-23T22:41:20Z")
**How did we get multiple oceans? Why isn’t it just one?** I can’t be the only one who read this ‘multiple orgasms’. Or maybe I am. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/35 "2017-06-23T23:01:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Pangaea was the most recent, but before that there was Gondwanaland, and there were others before that, too. No, Gondwanaland and Laurasia were formed from the breakup of Supercontinent Pangea, before further breaking down into smaller masses. ---
**Author:** ![albino\_manatee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/albino_manatee/32/2_2.png) [@albino\_manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/albino_manatee)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/36 "2017-06-24T12:05:25Z")
don’t you remember when your mother asked you to wash the dishes after dinner in the evenings … you poured liquid soap into the plugged sink and cascaded warm water until enough had amassed. at top of the water was a bunch of suds … all in one neat mass. over five/ten minute period … that single mass broke down into multiple smaller masses. think of the masses of suds as continents … and clear water regions as ocean. suds _(tectonic plates)_ are never static. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/37 "2017-06-24T13:53:08Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Strictly speaking this isn’t true. While the “World Ocean” is one interconnected body of water, if you define oceans in terms of the boundaries of their gyres, there are seven distinct bodies (North and South Atlantic Ocean, North and South Pacific Ocean, Indian Ocean, Arctic Ocean, and Antarctic or Southern Ocean). Do the seven distinct bodies of water have any connection at all with the old phrase the Seven Seas or is the number simply coincidental? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/38 "2017-06-24T14:08:53Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Do the seven distinct bodies of water have any connection at all with the old phrase the Seven Seas or is the number simply coincidental? [The Master’s minion speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1385/what-are-the-seven-seas). Coincidental. And the agreement on seven oceans is still tenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476/39 "2017-06-24T19:34:57Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > **How did we get multiple oceans? Why isn’t it just one?** > > I can’t be the only one who read this ‘multiple orgasms’. > > Or maybe I am. > mmm Either would have enough fluid to go diving in… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-we-get-multiple-oceans-why-isnt-it-just-one/789476.md?page=1)