# How did you react to Phantom Menace? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026 "2018-12-13T00:33:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/121 "2018-12-19T14:28:40Z")
Oooh! I just remembered the _[Machete order](https://www.t3.com/features/the-star-wars-machete-order-explained)_ for watching the Star Wars saga, especially for someone who has not seen any of them before starting out. He recommends the order IV, V, II, III, VI. > [@Machete](#): > > By watching the films in this order, you not only avoid spoilers entirely, but also maintain the original narrative’s focus. Essentially you follow Luke on his coming of age story up until he loses his hand to Vader on Cloud City and finds out that he is his father, before going on an extended two-film flashback where we see how Anakin became Vader and conceived Luke, before then snapping back to the present for the finale. The father reveal is preserved, the Luke narrative is preserved and the ghost-tastic, feel-good, redemption finale is preserved. But, you may say, how do we get the whole story without Episode I? Surely, it has an effect on the narrative? Nope, nope and nope. Episode I is completely superfluous to the story and all the narrative strands it raises are essentially concluded within the same film. > … > The brutal fact is that Episode I is just not needed and, when you’ve got Jar Jar Binks devouring your soul in every other scene, it is just not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/122 "2018-12-19T15:16:26Z")
From Ep. 1, I think the Qui Gon/Obi Wan dynamic was worth preserving, as it set up the Obi Wan/Anakin dynamic. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/123 "2018-12-19T22:19:46Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > The pod race is a perfect example of the prequel movies. > > Everyone behind the scenes was working hard and doing the best work of their lives. John Williams score is great, the effects in that sequence hold up even today, and the whole thing is well done on a technical and film-making level. I _like_ the pod race. > > It does not, however, fit into this movie and was a huge chunk of movie that we did not need. And from a story point-of-view, it was dumb beyond belief. > > I do recommend the making-of feature on the Phantom Menace DVD. You can tell all the behind the scenes people really were doing great work on all levels. Only Lucas and his yes-men were screwing things up with a bad script and directing job. The one positive thing I’ll say about TPM is that I’ll give Lucas credit for taking a risk with the pod race scene. When revisiting a series that was entirely built on a series of big combat action setpieces, he made one of the biggest moments in TPM a sporting event slash Ben Hur reference. That’s a serious roll of the dice and a commitment to a personal vision. It was also completely the wrong call, but I appreciate the risk. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/124 "2018-12-19T22:29:19Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > It was also completely the wrong call, but I appreciate the risk. You must love the Darwin Awards. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/125 "2018-12-20T07:52:02Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Oooh! I just remembered the _[Machete order](https://www.t3.com/features/the-star-wars-machete-order-explained)_ for watching the Star Wars saga, especially for someone who has not seen any of them before starting out. He recommends the order IV, V, II, III, VI. This is order I mentioned in post #71. It really does work, too. ---
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/126 "2018-12-20T12:24:49Z")
I was never a Star Wars fan. However, that hype around Phantom Menace when I was in high school was contagious. It seeped into my psyche, and I convinced myself I would like it this time. I didn’t. There was parts I liked, but overall I knew I wasn’t going to watch the other movies. And I didn’t. I’m just glad I didn’t try to force myself to like the franchise like I did from ages 5-7 when I swore the next viewing would unlock the secret in A New Hope that made everyone around me adore it so. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/127 "2018-12-23T19:33:57Z")
Going from memory here (watched it on VHS once): Visuals, beautiful, stunning. Trade Federation plot, really pointless Macguffin, but whatever. Jar Jar/Anakin, a _little_ annoying, but I’ve endured far worse. (The absolute worst was Willie from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, hands down.) Qui-Gon, best character without a doubt. Cool, always in control, yet can think for himself and isn’t afraid to stand up for what he believes in. Shame he didn’t survive past one movie. Midichlorians…see, here’s the thing; does anyone know what these actually _are?_ You’re all ASSUMING that they’re pathogens and that the Force is a disease symptom, and this is never once explicitly stated by anyone. Frankly, I think Lucasfilm just needed an easy-to-understand way to state, objectively and quantifiably, that Anakin has tremendous Force power. Y’know what, works for me. Watto. I don’t see what the big deal was with him being immune to Force Persuasion. Remember, it is only guaranteed to work on the weak-minded, which he clearly isn’t. I do think the whole scheme to prevent Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan from simply getting the part and leaving was heavy-handed…maybe get them tied up in some bureaucratic headache and while they’re sorting it out they find out about Anakin. The podrace…okay, my minor beef with this was that Anakin was presented as a huge underdog (“You never even _finished?_”). It’s a ham-handed attempt at a Rocky dynamic and completely unnecessary and pointless here. Other than that, fast-paced action, thrills, spills, stuff gets blown up real good. I liked it. The Gungan/Anakin in the starfighter/2-on-1 lightsaber battle conclusion. Eh…it worked, I guess. A bit too much of a jumping-around clusterfrag and nothing in it that I found really impressive. Don’t get me wrong, Ray Park was amazing, but the whole sequence struck me as not so much “epic swordfight” as “aggressive ballet”. It was a pretty good action movie. Did it live up to my expectations? I didn’t have any. Life’s easier that way. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/128 "2018-12-23T19:59:10Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Going from memory here (watched it on VHS once): > The Gungan/Anakin in the starfighter/2-on-1 lightsaber battle conclusion. Eh…it worked, I guess. A bit too much of a jumping-around clusterfrag and nothing in it that I found really impressive. Don’t get me wrong, Ray Park was amazing, but the whole sequence struck me as not so much “epic swordfight” as “aggressive ballet”. If you have the time and inclination, look up (on YouTube) some of the fan-made lightsaber battles. I recall one that struck me less as a demonstration of any kind of practical fight/fighting style than as a combination of near-Olympic-grade Capoeira-and-Baton-Twirling. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/129 "2018-12-24T13:10:18Z")
I remember how refreshing it was in one of the Bourne movies – I forget which one – where he comes back to his apartment unexpectedly and surprises a guy tossing it for the McGuffin. In the hand-to-hand and improvised weapon fight that ensued there were no fancy spins, kicks, or other improbable moves, just two experienced professionals trying their best to kill the other. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/130 "2018-12-24T16:13:06Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Midichlorians…see, here’s the thing; does anyone know what these actually _are?_ You’re all ASSUMING that they’re pathogens and that the Force is a disease symptom, and this is never once explicitly stated by anyone. Frankly, I think Lucasfilm just needed an easy-to-understand way to state, objectively and quantifiably, that Anakin has tremendous Force power. Y’know what, works for me. I actually always assumed that midi-chlorians were a SW variant of mitochondria – it’s [theorized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrion#Origin_and_evolution) that, in the very early days of life on Earth, mitochondria formed a symbiotic relationship with eukaryotic cells (i.e., the sorts of cells that we have). In TPM, Qui-Gon explains midi-chlorians to Anakin in this way: “Midi-chlorians are a microscopic life form that resides within all living cells.” So, not a pathogen, but a symbiosis, and one that’s variable by individual. I don’t **like** the midi-chlorian explanation, but I get it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/131 "2018-12-26T05:01:34Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Oooh! I just remembered the _[Machete order](https://www.t3.com/features/the-star-wars-machete-order-explained)_ for watching the Star Wars saga, especially for someone who has not seen any of them before starting out. He recommends the order IV, V, II, III, VI. Ah yes. We are due to visit my in laws in Ottawa tomorrow, meaning that, as at every single time I ever see my brother in law, I will be asked if I have tried them in the Machete Order, and it will be explained in exhausting detail what it is, even when I explain I’ve heard of them. Really, though, here is the correct order: 1. “Star Wars” 2. “The Empire Strikes Back” 3. “Return of the Jedi” You can then move into the very recent movies if you wish, like Rogue One and The Force Awakens. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/132 "2019-01-02T02:51:25Z")
My memory of seeing it. I recall the audience I was with applauding when the 20th Century Fox fanfare came on. After that, I really don’t remember anything. I don’t recall if I or the people I was with liked or disliked it. Unlike with Star Wars where I remember us watching it twice, then exiting out the theater to wait for our mother to pick us up talking about how awesome it was and that we wanted to be Luke and have a light saber. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/133 "2019-01-02T02:57:29Z")
I was spending a summer in South Africa after university, I walked across Durban at night to see it (a city with an order of magnitude higher crime rate than any I had previously visited in my life). I remember just being like really, I risked life and limb for this? ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/134 "2019-01-02T08:31:51Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Qui-Gon, best character without a doubt. Cool, always in control, yet can think for himself and isn’t afraid to stand up for what he believes in. And what he believes in is not freeing slaves. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026/135 "2019-01-02T12:01:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I saw it opening day, 1st daytime performance (10:00am, I think it was). I walked out _extremely_ disappointed with the movie and overtly hating the racist caricature. Which one? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-you-react-to-phantom-menace/826026.md?page=6)