# How difficult is it to kill yourself in prison? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390 "2005-12-06T19:13:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/21 "2005-12-07T03:37:21Z")
> [@Rhinocerous](#): > > I did a google search . . . found a pretty interesting study comparing suicide techniques in different types of facilities. Looks like the overwhelming majority hang themselves (94%) and bedding was used in about 50% of those hangings. Other items used included shoelaces and belts. Of the 339 prison suicides surveyed, 4 cut themselves, 4 overdosed, and 4 somehow shot themselves. Two managed to jump off of something, one swallowed a foreign object, and 7 did “other.” Other? I’d certainly be curious to know what those enterprising souls did. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/22 "2005-12-07T08:03:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Other? I’d certainly be curious to know what those enterprising souls did. Poison, drowning, explosives, electrocution, and fire weren’t accounted for in the mentioned categories. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/23 "2005-12-07T12:30:08Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > IANA Mod but… > > Do not ask for advice on suicide. If someone asks, do not answer. What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/24 "2005-12-07T14:56:19Z")
I’m talking the hell about a banned subject. Do not give advice on how to commit suicide. > **[suicide, painless, quick, and clean](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176944)** > > This is Susma. I had intended to post my query in the General Questions, but mistakenly placed it in the GD, thinking it was GQ. Now, about self-effected departure, it has to be clean, because I wouldn’t want people to be more inconvenienced than... ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/25 "2005-12-07T15:23:20Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > I’m talking the hell about a banned subject. Do not give advice on how to commit suicide. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176944](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176944) Are you sure this thread contradicts the rules? The rules state: \*You agree not to post material that in our opinion fosters or promotes activity that is illegal in the U.S… \*([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/rules.php?)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/rules.php?)) Is this discussion fostering or promoting suicide or is it sharing information about what actually happens? That page also states: _Any user who feels a posted message is objectionable should contact the moderators of the affected forum by e-mail._ If you are still worried, report the thread to a mod by pushing the button. They will decide. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/26 "2005-12-07T15:27:08Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > I’m talking the hell about a banned subject. Do not give advice on how to commit suicide. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176944](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176944) In the event I have decided to report this thread for clarification about its status. I think that it is valid but the mods will decide. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/27 "2005-12-07T15:51:46Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? I agree. If someone outside of prison wants to take their own life, they don’t need advice in the form of ‘the most difficult way to kill oneself’, as would be the case in prison. The people reading this thread will have access to any means they want, easy means. You don’t have to be a creative genius to kill yourself, unless you’re in prison. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/28 "2005-12-07T16:16:26Z")
Here is a report on a recent high profile suicide. [Harold Shipman](http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/shipman/betrayal_29.html) I suppose if anyone knew the best way to kill oneself, a doctor would be a good bet. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/29 "2005-12-07T16:24:11Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > I’m talking the hell about a banned subject. Do not give advice on how to commit suicide. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176944](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176944) You might want to interject that statement into a forum where it’s actually happening. ---
**Author:** ![Rhinocerous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@Rhinocerous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhinocerous)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/30 "2005-12-07T16:54:19Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > There was the old [playing cards method](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/kogut.htm). Wow, this guy was truly the MacGyver of prison suicide. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/31 "2005-12-07T17:46:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Try seeing it from the inmates perspective. The only clothes that you have don’t fit and no body can be arsed to try to put it right. Yup. sure, that’s exactly how it was, a lazy government employee just could not be bothered to obtain another t-shirt. Despite the fact that all prison staff who deal directly with prisoners know that large incidents can have small beginnings and are wary of such things, and of course the prisoner, who was wearing a t-shirt at the time had every right to insist his personal flunky should make a call to the stores staff, who would be at home on a Sunday, call them out and authorise extroadinary call out duty pay, rather than have the prisoner wait all of 24 hours until he can get to the clothing store himself. Must be that the prisons in your area are the holiday camps we all read about in the national press, in the UK they are somewhat differant. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/32 "2005-12-07T18:27:25Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > There was the old [playing cards method](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/kogut.htm). For the life of me, I can’t see how that would work: > [@](#): > > Kogut removed a hollow steel leg from his cot, tore several packs of playing cards into tiny pieces, and stuffed these bits into the pipe. (At the time, red playing cards were reportedly made using a rather volatile ink.) He \*\*plugged one end \*\* tightly with a broom handle, and poured water into the other end to soak the torn cards. He then placed this device on top of the kerosene heater next to his bed, laid down, and \*\*put his head up against the open end \*\* of the pipe. > > The heater turned the water into steam, and when the **pressure built up to a high enough level** , the resulting explosion shot the bits of playing cards out of the pipe with enough force to penetrate Kogut’s skull. I don’t see how any pressure at all could “build up,” given that one end of the pipe was open. Did the “volatile” red ink explode? If so, what was the purpose of soaking them in water? Wouldn’t that inhibit any explosive potential? ---
**Author:** ![Rhinocerous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@Rhinocerous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhinocerous)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/33 "2005-12-07T18:38:32Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > For the life of me, I can’t see how that would work:I don’t see how any pressure at all could “build up,” given that one end of the pipe was open. Did the “volatile” red ink explode? If so, what was the purpose of soaking them in water? Wouldn’t that inhibit any explosive potential? I was having a hard time with that as well. I figured that the wet playing cards some how clogged up the other end while the water reacted somehow with the red dye, building up pressure in the middle. But that still seems like it wouldn’t work, especially not with enough force to shoot playing cards into your skull. It seems like the best you could hope for would be for the cards to penetrate your skin and cause a nasty infection. If I was that guy, I would have made a noose from the bedsheet and hung myself from someting, and then I would have pointed the tube at my head as backup. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/34 "2005-12-07T19:34:58Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > For the life of me, I can’t see how that would work:I don’t see how any pressure at all could “build up,” given that one end of the pipe was open. Did the “volatile” red ink explode? If so, what was the purpose of soaking them in water? Wouldn’t that inhibit any explosive potential? My question would be why a prisoner about to be executed would have access to playing cards, a bed with a removalble post and broomstick. Especially since the last two would make a nice baton. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/35 "2005-12-07T19:37:40Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > We will rather agressively prevent any inmate from killing or injuring himself. We put any inmate suspected of considering suicide in a strip cell with the lights on and a guard watching him twenty four hours a day. If necessary we will even tie an inmate down to the bed or heavily sedate him to prevent him from injuring himself (I’ve seen inmates try to hurt themselves by jumping headfirst off a toilet or by chewing at their own wrists). As I’m sure QtM remembers, even this isn’t foolproof. Just a few years ago, we had an inmate commit suicide while under a suicide watch. They were to check on him every 15 minutes and he managed to hang himself in between the checks. [link](http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/aug01/taylor-web082001.asp) ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/36 "2005-12-07T20:50:44Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > IANA Mod but… > > Do not ask for advice on suicide. If someone asks, do not answer. Please leave the moderating to the moderators. If you take exception to any thread or post, please report it using the “Report post” function. Thanks. - **xash** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/37 "2005-12-07T21:20:28Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > For the life of me, I can’t see how that would work:I don’t see how any pressure at all could “build up,” given that one end of the pipe was open. Did the “volatile” red ink explode? If so, what was the purpose of soaking them in water? Wouldn’t that inhibit any explosive potential? Kogut used the spots from hearts and diamonds, as the red ink then used for playing card manufacture was nitrate-rich. Moisture and heat, when applied to nitrates can result in rapid decomposition, apparently what the decedent wished. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/38 "2005-12-08T02:21:41Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Kogut used the spots from hearts and diamonds, as the red ink then used for playing card manufacture was nitrate-rich. Moisture and heat, when applied to nitrates can result in rapid decomposition, apparently what the decedent wished. Yeah, but the only thing missing is a closed container to allow the pressure to build. A pipe with one end open would only produce a relatively low, sustained pressure like a rocket, not an explosion. It might cause a nasty burn, but I seriously doubt it would be capable of propelling pasteboard fragments through the skull. If it happened, somebody got the details wrong. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/39 "2005-12-08T03:07:43Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > There was the old [playing cards method](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/kogut.htm). That reads like a crock of crud to me. The bits of card would have to be very tightly packed. If tightly packed water would not readily soak the entire mass. In any event I would expect a big sploosh. Not a skull splitting missle. Heating the plugged end of the pipe might work depending on the length of the pipe/tube, and the plug may have produced a ‘real nice’ fatal concussion. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390/40 "2005-12-08T06:06:16Z")
I’m a little confused about the whole “build up of steam” thing. IIRC, I read that turn of the century playing cards contained nitro\*. Specifically, the dye used on the suit symbols\*\*. All you’d need then is glycerine – quite easy to come by – and then fashion the pipe bomb in that way. I read this in _Big Secrets_ by William Poundstone\*\*\*. This makes more sense to me than the “build up – laceration by playing cards” thing. \*I don’t know the actual name for the chemical, sorry. \*\* Yeah, probably a name for those too. \*\*\* They don’t make them like this anymore, so don’t even bother trying it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-difficult-is-it-to-kill-yourself-in-prison/334390.md?page=3)