# How dire is California's financial situation? We keep hearing warnings, but nothing is ever done **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 28, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471 "2009-10-28T16:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/1 "2009-10-28T16:44:12Z")
Are people warning about California’s pending financial collapse crying wolf? It seems California been on the brink for (seemingly) years now but nothing ever really gets done re the situation. How do they keep hanging on if a system collapse is really just around the corner? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/2 "2009-10-28T19:35:03Z")
They appear to keep pushing the (ever bigger) problem out until next year. It is going to get worse this year, since the courts have ruled a lot of the cuts illegal. If they postpone it until the recovery kicks in, then tax revenues will go up, the deficit will go away, and everyone will go back to passing propositions that cost money while refusing to raise taxes to pay for them again. More than 50% of Californians are against changing the constitution to allow tax bills to pass with a majority instead of 2/3 vote, which shows the problem right there. If 55% lets you spend, but not pay for it, you are screwed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/3 "2009-10-28T20:39:10Z")
I fear the only “solution” to California’s problem lies in massive depopulation, half of the people there have to leave, even if they don’t run out of money, they’re gonna run out of water. Spread them out over the rest of the states, everybody takes their share. Except Minnesota. Too cold, they wouldn’t make it. Iowa. Iowa is nice… ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/4 "2009-10-28T21:25:18Z")
California needs to scrap her constitution and start over from scratch. The state has degenerated into a state of glorified mob rule. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/5 "2009-10-29T01:01:42Z")
Sacramento needs to unify its efforts to create more employment opprtunities and invest in knowledge and edudation. Surely some new ideas can be floated that take the long view which won’t undermine prosperity. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/6 "2009-10-29T02:35:46Z")
I have no idea if that was meant to be some form of exotic free verse, but if so, it was a lousy poem. California’s budget has been growing much faster than its revenues for years, and the state as a practical matter can’t tax much more without risking severe and long-term economic decline, particularly as it would come in a down economy. It simply can’t keep growing the budget like that. But taxation is not a serious answer: it already has high taxes and sending them much higher would drive out the businesses it needs, particularly smal business. I’m not sure it practically _can_ just wait out the recession. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/7 "2009-10-29T03:07:14Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I have no idea if that was meant to be some form of exotic free verse It’s a reference to [this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=537712) ---
**Author:** ![akwally1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akwally1/32/3220_2.png) [@akwally1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akwally1)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/8 "2009-10-29T05:43:04Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I have no idea if that was meant to be some form of exotic free verse, but if so, it was a lousy poem. Well, Hilarious though it may be, obviously it is meant to be viewed only by those in the legislature. Surely they could glean the meanings with a little help from the Governator. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/9 "2009-10-29T06:44:21Z")
Just out of curiosity, if Maria Shriver ran for governor, could she win? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/10 "2009-10-29T15:11:01Z")
> [@akwally1](#): > > Well, > Hilarious though it may be, > obviously it is meant to be viewed > only by those in the legislature. > Surely they could glean the meanings with a little > help from the Governator. :smack: Argh. Infinite money Are the sinews of the state Much relies on them But blind as we are Look at the cost In bad government Ninety-nine times its revenues Destroyed by foolishness ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/11 "2009-10-29T17:59:29Z")
Remember NYC in the 70s, what a disaster that was. On “Barney Miller” every other joke was how broke NYC and how awful it was and how it’d never recover. Other NYC themed TV shows had similar jokes about what a mess NYC was. But New York City recovered nicely and not only regained the population it lost but gained more than it ever had. Time will straighten it out one way or another. Already immigration is slowing to California while Texas and Florida as well as New York City have been attracting more and more new immigrants (I’m talking legal). Like GM, California is simply too big to be allowed to fail, so even in a very bad scenario it’d be bailed out, no politician is going to run the risk of having California go over to the “red” side again. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/12 "2009-10-29T19:54:56Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > California needs to scrap her constitution and start over from scratch. The state has degenerated into a state of glorified mob rule. You’re kidding, right? The fundamental problem with respect to California’s governance isn’t that of a majority forcing its will on a minority. It’s an amendment to their state Constitution from a few decades back that allows 1/3 of the legislature to block any new taxes. Get rid of that, and California will be fine. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/13 "2009-10-29T22:22:44Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You’re kidding, right? > > The fundamental problem with respect to California’s governance isn’t that of a majority forcing its will on a minority. It’s an amendment to their state Constitution from a few decades back that allows 1/3 of the legislature to block any new taxes… Yeah, allowing any special interest group with enough resources to put measures directly to the voters the require increase spending without providing a way to pay for it isn’t a problem at all. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/14 "2009-10-29T23:29:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You’re kidding, right? > > The fundamental problem with respect to California’s governance isn’t that of a majority forcing its will on a minority. It’s an amendment to their state Constitution from a few decades back that allows 1/3 of the legislature to block any new taxes. > > Get rid of that, and California will be fine. And at least 1/3 of the legislature will always block something. As The Economist points out California districts have been gerrymandered into blue or red areas. The winners will be decided in the primaries, not the general election. As a result you have people winning on deep ideology on both sides. And those ideologies go to Sacramento and block each other. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/15 "2009-10-30T00:16:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You’re kidding, right? > > The fundamental problem with respect to California’s governance isn’t that of a majority forcing its will on a minority. It’s an amendment to their state Constitution from a few decades back that allows 1/3 of the legislature to block any new taxes. > > Get rid of that, and California will be fine. It will help, but it won’t make things fine. We’ve got somewhere over 500 amendments, many mutually contradictory, that mandates all kinds of spending and programs without mandating revenue increases to pay for them. Most legislators at least to try to figure out how to pay for the goodies. The average California voter, though, is like a chimp with a credit card. So, we need to reduce the initiative process by a lot. The only thing I’m worried about is that until the people against taxes start feeling the pain from the consequences of cutting spending (and letting people out of jail might be a good start) a new Constitution would be just as bad. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/16 "2009-10-30T00:18:22Z")
> [@Doug\_Bowe](#): > > And at least 1/3 of the legislature will always block something. As The Economist points out California districts have been gerrymandered into blue or red areas. The winners will be decided in the primaries, not the general election. As a result you have people winning on deep ideology on both sides. And those ideologies go to Sacramento and block each other. The problem is, they are not blocking spending but blocking revenue generation, because there isn’t a 2/3 rule for spending. If there was, I think people would rise in revolt when schools and cops aren’t paid for. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/17 "2009-10-30T03:03:23Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > But New York City recovered nicely and not only regained the population it lost but gained more than it ever had. Time will straighten it out one way or another. It also took something like twenty years. And New York City had a much less ingrained structurally-bad situation than California. Yes, of course it can someday make a comback, but that’s like telling Jews in the 1930’s, “Not to worry. Those Nazis won’t last _forever_.” (And IO bet you thought this post wouldn’t be Godwinized, eh? Eh?! 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/18 "2009-10-30T03:16:37Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > California needs to scrap her constitution and start over from scratch. The state has degenerated into a state of glorified mob rule. Yeah, we need to distill the power to rule down to an elite few. Preferably me and my friends. We’d show that mob what for. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/19 "2009-10-30T03:51:38Z")
I think maybe three is too small a number for a power elite. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471/20 "2009-10-30T04:22:39Z")
Fuck California. They’re already fucked. So why not? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dire-is-californias-financial-situation-we-keep-hearing-warnings-but-nothing-is-ever-done/515471.md?page=2)