# How (dis)honest are the Clintons, compared to other high-level pols? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590 "2008-05-25T20:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/21 "2008-05-26T13:00:24Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Who said anything about ‘real importance’? 😃 I’m talking frequency and blatancy. [/quote] OK, so you’re conceding that the Clintons don’t lie about important stuff. I’m good with that. To me, lying to get us into a war is much more significant than a thousand lies about what color of shirt you wore yesterday. But maybe that’s just me. 🙂 > [@](#): > > My point is that the Clintons lie like they breathe: easily and constantly. You can try to move the goalposts if you want but you fail to address or rebut my point if you do. OK, but like many of the others have said, untruths about minor things are pretty much the universal currency of pols trying to make themselves look better than they really are. Anyway, that “the Clintons lie like they breathe: easily and constantly” and “[n]one of the aforementioned…has anywhere near the Clinton’s history or reputation for dishonesty” is your assertion. Unless you can show somehow that the Clintons are in a league of their own when it comes to petty lies, there doesn’t seem to be much ‘there’ there. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/22 "2008-05-26T13:19:01Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] If you want to start a debate about me [/QUOTE] No, the place to discuss the validity of your comments here is _here_. If you’re not willing to support them, that says everything it needs to. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/23 "2008-05-26T13:34:36Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > None of the presidents mentioned have anywhere near this kind of reputation. **Nixon didn’t** , Reagan didn’t and GWB doesn’t. My bolding demonstrates that **Starving Artist** has an extremely tenuous understanding of what “reputation for dishonesty” really means. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/24 "2008-05-26T13:36:16Z")
It’s easy to forget sometimes that there are many posters here who simply have no personal memory of a President before Bill Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/25 "2008-05-26T14:00:45Z")
Well, I’m pretty sure I _did_ have, at some point. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/26 "2008-05-26T14:01:21Z")
If you remember, you weren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/27 "2008-05-26T14:09:33Z")
Easy answer: The most dishonest in history when it involves your golden boy. Scrupulously honest if the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy is their foe. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/28 "2008-05-26T15:07:20Z")
I’d like Democrats who argue about Clinton’s honesty to defend a few things that, IMHO, really can’t be defended. The first is the 1996 campaign fundraising, which set a new standard for filthy money, and made shady characters like James Riady and Charlie Trie household names. The second was the 11th hour pardons. I don’t think there is any question that many of these were sold, especially when you look at the behavior of Tony Rodham in that mess. Frankly, I think most honest Democrats inclined to support Bill Clinton for policy reasons would be reluctant to support these. But I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/29 "2008-05-26T15:26:08Z")
As if no Republican would do or ever has done anything comparable, huh? You know better. Or should. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/30 "2008-05-26T15:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > The second was the 11th hour pardons. I don’t think there is any question that many of these were sold, especially when you look at the behavior of Tony Rodham in that mess. Whereas George Bush’s 11th hour pardons were of people who might otherwise have testified against him for his role in Iran-Contra. How is that a higher standard of honesty? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/31 "2008-05-26T15:36:14Z")
All presidents pardon on the way out. Nixon was the only president that had to be pardoned. His little cabal of crooks and liars was unprecedented until Bush made them look good. Sadly all pols lie. To be successful it seems to be a requirement. As they travel from state to state running they say things that will play well in the market . Often they are contradicted by what they said in earlier states. It is politics. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/32 "2008-05-26T17:49:57Z")
Was there ever any proof presented about the Clintons supposedly ransacking Air Force One on their way out of office? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/33 "2008-05-26T17:56:18Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Frankly, I think most honest Democrats inclined to support Bill Clinton for policy reasons would be reluctant to support these. [/QUOTE] Now you’re going way beyond lying and positing corruption. I certainly would not support corruption. Got proof? ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/34 "2008-05-26T18:33:39Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Was there ever any proof presented about the Clintons supposedly ransacking Air Force One on their way out of office? [/QUOTE] I never heard of anything about AF1, but the neocons newly in office made a big deal about how Clinton trashed the White House on his way out. People said the phone lines were down, rooms were destroyed, computers broken, etc. They really hyped it up for a while. And investigation was done on it, to see what had happened and who would have to pay for it. The result of the investigation? Nothing happened. There was no evidence of damage found. The whole thing was just never mentioned again. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/35 "2008-05-26T18:48:00Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] The whole thing was just never mentioned again. [/QUOTE] You don’t hear much about the [$80 million](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/04/01/counsel.probe.costs/) that Republicans blew trying to find some dishonesty in the Clinton’s background either. I doubt that there’s more than a few GOP congresscritters that could withstand that sort of scrutiny nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/36 "2008-05-26T18:51:53Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] And investigation was done on it, to see what had happened and who would have to pay for it. The result of the investigation? Nothing happened. There was no evidence of damage found. The whole thing was just never mentioned again. [/QUOTE] Sorry, false. [The General Accounting Office, an investigative arm of Congress, said today that ‘‘damage, theft, vandalism and pranks did occur in the White House complex’’ in the presidential transition from Bill Clinton to George W. Bush. The agency put the cost at $13,000 to $14,000, including $4,850 to replace computer keyboards, many with damaged or missing W keys.](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFDE163CF931A25755C0A9649C8B63) I’ve posted this before. Check your facts next time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/37 "2008-05-26T18:59:09Z")
Missed the edit window. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Was there ever any proof presented about the Clintons supposedly ransacking Air Force One on their way out of office? Not Air Force One - she stole a couple of hundred grand in furniture and furnishings that were marked as gifts to the White House. She gave most of it back when she got caught. ([Cite.](http://www.rense.com/general80/hopes.htm)) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/38 "2008-05-26T19:16:20Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] No, the place to discuss the validity of your comments here is _here_. If you’re not willing to support them, that says everything it needs to. [/QUOTE] _What_ comments here? In post #2 in this thread, you made an issue of my factuality, without pointing out any problems with the OP in that regard. [We can continue this discussion in the Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=469455). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/39 "2008-05-26T22:07:15Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Sorry, false. [The General Accounting Office, an investigative arm of Congress, said today that ‘‘damage, theft, vandalism and pranks did occur in the White House complex’’ in the presidential transition from Bill Clinton to George W. Bush. The agency put the cost at $13,000 to $14,000, including $4,850 to replace computer keyboards, many with damaged or missing W keys.](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFDE163CF931A25755C0A9649C8B63) I’ve posted this before. Check your facts next time. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Well, given that the subject of this thread is, specifically, the _relative_ dishonesty of the Clintons compared with previous Republican administrations, it might have been relevant for you to include this quote from your linked article: > [@](#): > > The accounting office said similar pranks were reported in prior transitions, including the one from Mr. Bush’s father to Mr. Clinton in 1993. ‘‘We were unable to conclude,’’ it said, ‘‘whether the 2001 transition was worse than previous ones.’’ ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/40 "2008-05-26T22:14:40Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] Well, given that the subject of this thread is, specifically, the _relative_ dishonesty of the Clintons compared with previous Republican administrations, it might have been relevant for you to include this quote from your linked article: [/QUOTE] Oh, come now. You could have made the link to the thread yourself without accusing **Shodan** of being disingenuous. He was responding to a specific assertion by a specific poster, not the subject of the thread. With regard to the assertion he was challenging, that part was not, in fact, relevant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590.md?page=3)