# How (dis)honest are the Clintons, compared to other high-level pols? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590 "2008-05-25T20:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/81 "2008-05-29T03:54:58Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Nixon’s rep was and is worse than the Clinton’s. That’s not an allegation; it’s the truth. [/quote] Here we go again. Was his rep _as a liar_ worse than the Clintons’ prior to Watergate? [QUOTE=Frank] You’ve attempted no rebuttal. You’ve merely insisted that it ain’t so, and you’re wrong. [/quote] There’s been nothing to rebut. Numerous people have come along to allege pretty much what you have, which is that his ‘reputation’ was worse, or that he lied on this or that sporadic occasion, but precious little evidence has been offered as to his reputation as a liar on the scale of the Clintons. Even after Watergate, most of the slings and arrows he suffered were for the cover-up, the ‘Imperial presidency’, siccing the FBI or IRS on his enemies, etc., but nothing much has been offered regarding his being as prolific and unabashed a liar as the Clintons, and the reason for this is simple: he wasn’t. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > Starvy, it must be a hoot to play football with you. The game’s in overtime, we line up on the line of scrimage, snap the play, make a long pass, and throw it into the endzone. Touchdown. We win. > > SA: “Why are you holding out your hand?” > Us: “Ummm…because it’s traditional at the end of the game to shake hands.” > SA: “Yeah, I know that, but so what? The game’s not over.” > Us: “Ummm…yes, it is. We just scored the winning touchdown in overtime.” > SA: “No you didn’t.” > Us: “What?” > SA: “You didn’t score a touchdown.” > Us: “Yes we did. Look, they’re showing a replay on the jumbo screen right now.” > SA: “That’s a different game.” > Us: “A different game? Look, that’s you right there on the screen.” > SA: “They must have photoshopped me in there.” > Us: “Right. Whatever. We’re leaving now. Better luck next time.” > SA: “If you leave in the middle of a game it’s a forfeit. We win.” > Us: “Tell that the score keeper. But you better hurry. He’s already left.” > SA: “You can’t just walk out like this.” > Us: “Game over, man. Bye.” > SA: “Well, then go ahead and quit. History will vindicate me and show that I won.” Pardon me, sir, but I believe you have me confused with one of our current presidential candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/82 "2008-05-29T04:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s been nothing to rebut. Numerous people have come along to allege pretty much what you have, which is that his ‘reputation’ was worse, or that he lied on this or that sporadic occasion, but precious little evidence has been offered as to his reputation as a liar on the scale of the Clintons. Even after Watergate, most of the slings and arrows he suffered were for the cover-up, the ‘Imperial presidency’, siccing the FBI or IRS on his enemies, etc., but nothing much has been offered regarding his being as prolific and unabashed a liar as the Clintons, and the reason for this is simple: he wasn’t. You don’t seem to understand that repeating something that was obviously wrong the first time isn’t going to convince anyone that it’s right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/83 "2008-05-29T05:11:54Z")
And whats this about pre-Watergate Nixon? Mighty careful trimming, don’t you think, excising the part of his, ah, “career” when he did for lies what Gibralter does for rocks. But lets overlook that unfortunate interlude, shall we? “Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how’d you like the play?” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/84 "2008-05-29T05:34:43Z")
Come on, **luce**. You’re _cough_marginally_cough_ better than this. I’ve excised nothing. You are likely old enough to… Ah, forget it. If you want to comfort yourself by claiming that, well, at least Nixon was a bigger liar than the Clintons, I won’t try to disabuse you of the notion. Like **Liberal** said considerably upthread, this thread has gotten silly and I shouldn’t have allowed myself to get sucked back into it. I’m done here. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/85 "2008-05-29T05:37:56Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Even after Watergate, most of the slings and arrows he suffered were for the cover-up, the ‘Imperial presidency’, siccing the FBI or IRS on his enemies, etc., but nothing much has been offered regarding his being as prolific and unabashed a liar as the Clintons,… [/QUOTE] Does the cover-up not count as lying? How about the [Canuck Letter](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/articles/101072-1.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/86 "2008-05-29T12:41:37Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Dare I point out that the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was a lie? How about our alleged neutrality in the years preceeding our entrance into both World Wars? [/QUOTE] This is one of the rare threads where these references are actually apropos. I’m sort of on the fence about World War II, since the ends _do_ justify nonviolent means to a certain extent (but not much), and we wouldn’t have elected a president that promised to go to war proactively. However, w/r/t Johnson, I remind posters once again that it will be hard to find a defender of Johnson’s Vietnam policies on the board, so saying “hey, Bush isn’t as relatively bad as you say, Johnson lied for war too,” isn’t going to win any points here 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/87 "2008-05-31T21:26:38Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Nixon had friends? You sure about that? [/QUOTE] Bebe Rebozo, one of the great names in political history. Other than him, though … ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/88 "2008-06-01T10:59:52Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Bebe Rebozo, one of the great names in political history. Other than him, though … [/QUOTE] Can’t forget [Robert Abplanalp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Abplanalp)… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/89 "2008-06-01T18:03:49Z")
And [Gerald Ford,](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/28/AR2006122801247.html) whose long-standing friendship with Nixon was not widely appreciated when Ford was confirmed VP, and provides an Occam’s-Razor explanation for The Pardon. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590/90 "2008-06-01T18:56:28Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] You sure about that? This from Wikipedia: “In the 1950 mid-term elections, Nixon defeated Democratic Representative Helen Gahagan Douglas to win a seat in the United States Senate. Nixon called Gahagan “the Pink Lady”, accusing her of being a fellow traveler with Communist sympathies, and said she was “pink right down to her underwear.” Gahagan, for her part, bestowed upon Nixon one of the most enduring nicknames in American politics: “Tricky Dick”.” [/QUOTE] He said it in a Democratic Convention and it was a big hit. It may have been in 56 . I saw it and remembered because it was funny and Truman was not a real powerful speaker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-dis-honest-are-the-clintons-compared-to-other-high-level-pols/450590.md?page=4)