# How do airplanes steer when they are on the ground (taxiing) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619 "2004-01-04T08:00:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/41 "2004-01-05T09:02:48Z")
Okay, with this jpg, I might be wrong on the later models… Still looking… [http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/luftwaffe/fighter/me109/me109n6.jpg](http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/luftwaffe/fighter/me109/me109n6.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/42 "2004-01-05T09:04:04Z")
OOPS enlarge the cockpit photo on this page. [http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/luftwaffe/fighter/me109/me109.html](http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/luftwaffe/fighter/me109/me109.html) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/43 "2004-01-05T10:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ale \* > You know what?, you´re dead right; a couple months ago I have the chance to see an Ercoupe, and I didn´t notice the rudders, I checked the pictures I took and the hinge line is barely visible. > > But it´s still a PITA to land on cross winds, nonetheless. 😃 The local Ercoupe owner at my home field doesn’t seem to have a problem. Then again, you fly any airplane for 60 years I guess it all becomes second nature. I’m not saying the dude is old, but he bought that airplane direct from the factory when it was brand new. ---
**Author:** ![caligynephobia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@caligynephobia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligynephobia)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/44 "2004-01-06T02:07:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lamar Mundane \* > \*\*While on this subject, what about takeoff/landing steering? It seems those tiny nosewheels would be awfully touchy at high speeds. How do you keep things on the straight and narrow? (I am referring to large passenger jets here). \*\* For older Boeing jets, my post above that starts “Sinful, if . . .” discusses this. On that jet, the rudder pedals gave relatively small steering corrections, making them unsuitable for short radius turns but ideal for small corrections as you accellerated from zero to a speed during takeoff that afforded sufficient directional control from the rudder. The engineering tradeoffs are likely that you want to limit one’s ability to overcontrol during takeoff - especially at high speed, like you point out. On the other hand, at lower speeds and with the potential for a significant asymmetric thrust condition with the loss of an outboard engine, the pilot needs enough nosewheel authority to maintain directional control (stay on the runway) while continuing takeoff or aborting. Give the pilot too much nosewheel authority and she’ll skid the nosewheel, which actually reduces the real control she has. This is why Boeing designed those planes with differing nosewheel control effectiveness between the pedals and the tiller. ---
**Author:** ![caligynephobia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@caligynephobia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligynephobia)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/45 "2004-01-06T04:13:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Berkut \* > \*\*The gear is designed to be landed in a crab. It’s pretty tough. \*\* I gotta mention, my two friends from college that flew T-38s and F-15Es said they never used crosswind controls. Always landed in a crab. However the effects of crosswinds on drift/forward slip angle are significantly less when your approach speed is two or three times that of a GA plane . . . and with tricycle gear it doesn’t make too much difference. ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/46 "2004-01-06T06:56:37Z")
Having flown the T-38 (but not the F-15 - I was an unglamorous cargo guy 😉 ) I can say the the “land in a crab” procedure was due to the rudder, and the gear was designed to compensate for it. Rather, you landed in a crab because using the rudder close to the ground was tempting fate. Even a small rudder input caused significant yaw oscillations (Yaw damper? Pshaw! We don’t need no stinking yaw damper!). A large rudder input would snap-roll the airplane. With short wings and a rapid roll rate (720 deg/sec), things could get sporty fairly quickly. With stubby wings and a hyper-sensitive rudder the “wing-low” crosswind technique was out of the question. Just line the thing up so you’re not drifting and let the gear take the abuse. The airplane is a trainer, after all, which means two things: a fairly low crosswind limit (no wars will be lost if the T-38s don’t fly today), and it’s light (about 12,000 lbs) so the gear doesn’t have to withstand much stress. As to why the F-15E’s land in a crab, my only guess is that they’re too busy repeatedly telling those knuckle-draggers “pull back and the houses get smaller” that they can’t even consider bringing the rudder into the conversation! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/47 "2004-01-11T03:03:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GusNSpot \* > \*\*Berkut: The only Aerostars I have ‘driven’ have all had wings… 😃 > > 1920’s: You got some kids that get to fly ME-109’s? Where? Must be very lucky kids. ::: green with envey :::: ☹ > \*\* I don’t know them all that well, in fact one is dead now, killed in a 109 during an airshow. I’m just sure that opposite from normal rudder control would have been a topic of conversation and it wasn’t. It also doesn’t make sense as other german aircraft don’t have unusual rudder controls. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/48 "2004-01-11T04:17:16Z")
Okay, what I’m going to say goes back 40 years ago, when I was in flight school in Pensacola. I flew the T-34 and then the T-28 all the way thru hitting the carrier. Then we went to a Beechcraft with a tail wheel for instrument training. One whole flight consisted of taking two of us to an outlying field for practice taxiing that plane. Now here is what is strange and that is we used the engines along with the brakes to steer. If you turned left you gave the right engine a little gas and then pulled off when it started to turn or else you would go into a ground spin. It was hard to learn, but soon it just came naturally. Has anyone heard of this or am I having delusions. ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619/49 "2004-01-11T04:32:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kniz \* > \*\*Now here is what is strange and that is we used the engines along with the brakes to steer. If you turned left you gave the right engine a little gas and then pulled off when it started to turn or else you would go into a ground spin. It was hard to learn, but soon it just came naturally. Has anyone heard of this or am I having delusions. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Berkut \* > \*\*And… > > Twin or multiengine aircraft can be maneuvered by using asymmetric thrust. > > Limited effectiveness in a 727 or 337, I’m sure, but the Seminole does it quite handily.\*\* I wish I were doing it in a Twin Beech like you, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-airplanes-steer-when-they-are-on-the-ground-taxiing/222619.md?page=2)