# How do Atheists testify in court? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 10, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040 "2004-11-10T17:29:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hadrian0117](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Hadrian0117](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hadrian0117)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/1 "2004-11-10T17:29:05Z")
How do Atheists testify in court since they can’t place their right hand on a Bible and say “So help me God.”? Can they affirm instead of swearing an oath? Do they have to inform the Judge in advance? What happens if you get on the stand and the baliff asks you “Do you swear… so help you _god_” and you say no? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/2 "2004-11-10T17:31:42Z")
Well they _can_ put their hand on a bible and say “So help me God,” but surely some of them don’t want to. In any case, here’s **Cecil** ’s answer. [How do courts swear in atheists?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_145.html) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/3 "2004-11-10T17:37:00Z")
My single experience of an English court suggests they’re more used to dealing with atheists than in Cecil’s description of the US - as I stepped up to the witness box the usher quietly asked whether I would be swearing on the bible or not, with no suggestion that either was the ‘normal’ option. And FWIW, one of the police officers also turned down the religious option. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/4 "2004-11-10T17:39:51Z")
“Do you hearby swear or affirm that the testimony you’re about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you?” That’s they way I’ve heard it everytime in this county. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/5 "2004-11-10T17:46:19Z")
Is Cecil an Atheist? ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/6 "2004-11-10T17:47:14Z")
There is no requirement to swear on a bible. Atheists (and anyone else who wants to) can affirm, and it is legally binding same as a oath sworn on a bible. You don’t have to tell the judge beforehand, but depending on how the bailiff handles it, you may want to do so, so as to make it less obvious to a jury which might be prejudiced. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/7 "2004-11-10T18:08:12Z")
When I was sworn in for jury duty in California, the standard oath had no mention of god. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/8 "2004-11-10T18:22:27Z")
BTW, why would an atheist care about swearing on a bible, anyway?? From what I’ve seen, it’s the _most_ religious people who don’t want to swear on a bible. Not the _least_. What problem would an atheist have with putting his/her hand on a bible and swearing on it. I’ll swear on it. I’ll swear on any bible or holy book of any and all religions. What do I care. It doesn’t bother me any. Who would care if he doesn’t believe? I’ve even packed little pocket bibles to use as shit paper when I go out into the field for a while. What atheist would have a problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/9 "2004-11-10T18:24:12Z")
“So help you…emptiness?” ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/10 "2004-11-10T18:30:58Z")
**Bear\_Nenno** maybe it’s cultural. I would feel reluctant to say something publicly that implies a belief in God. I would feel uncomfortable saying “So help me God”. Nowadays I catch myself saying “for god’s sake” and similar phrases in anger, and then feel embarrased. I picture my younger self saying prayer and I _cringe_ at that thought. I grew up in a society where religion was very much a background, almost meaningless thing. So perhaps it’s normal for me to feel uncomfortable with it. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/11 "2004-11-10T18:53:42Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > BTW, why would an atheist care about swearing on a bible, anyway?? From what I’ve seen, it’s the _most_ religious people who don’t want to swear on a bible. Not the _least_. What problem would an atheist have with putting his/her hand on a bible and swearing on it. > > I’ll swear on it. I’ll swear on any bible or holy book of any and all religions. What do I care. It doesn’t bother me any. Who would care if he doesn’t believe? I’ve even packed little pocket bibles to use as shit paper when I go out into the field for a while. What atheist would have a problem with that? :dubious: I’m forced into enough hypocrisy in the world that I see no reason to add to it. I belive in the Constitution, justice, truth, and morality…I believe there is such a thing and we can achieve it. I don’t believe in a God, definitely not the Bible, and if there was a God I am perfectly content without It so I would refuse to swear by It. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/12 "2004-11-10T19:02:00Z")
Old thread on topic: [Swearing Atheists](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=12735). ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/13 "2004-11-10T19:09:18Z")
Wow, thanks **Lobsang** and **Elenia28**. I didn’t realize people were so pationate about being atheist. I say things like “thank god” all the time. I don’t write it with a capital G and I don’t put much thought into the phrase. To me, its the same as rabbit’s feet, dragons, chinese luck coins, and the like. One doesn’t necessarily have to believe in it to talk about it. But I can see if one grew up very religious and became an atheist, that person may actually _hate_ all things relating to or mentioning god. That makes sense. Me? I just don’t care one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/14 "2004-11-10T19:11:30Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > **Bear\_Nenno** maybe it’s cultural. I would feel reluctant to say something publicly that implies a belief in God. I would feel uncomfortable saying “So help me God”. > > Nowadays I catch myself saying “for god’s sake” and similar phrases in anger, and then feel embarrased. I picture my younger self saying prayer and I _cringe_ at that thought. I grew up in a society where religion was very much a background, almost meaningless thing. So perhaps it’s normal for me to feel uncomfortable with it. I concur with **Lobsang** I also grew up in a religious background and still live in a religious area. If I am about to say something cringe-worthy, I try to flip it around to something Bender (from Futurama) once said, “Oh! Your! God!” It is funny, disrespectful and true all at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/15 "2004-11-10T19:16:13Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Wow, thanks **Lobsang** and **Elenia28**. I didn’t realize people were so pationate about being atheist. I wouldn’t say ‘pationate’ (I wouldn’t say ‘passionate’ either 😃 ) It is only a small embarrasment. And when I pictured myself praying at school (C of E school) It _looked_ like I was really trying to talk to God and to ask him things. But when I remember back to actually doing it, all I was really doing is going along with this school habit, which, because we did it every day, I took for granted as being part of the school day. I never for a moment actually felt like I was talking to God and wanting things from him. I don’t _hate_ participating in Godly acts (being sworn in, using his name in conversation) I just feel uncomfortable about it. I too often say ‘thank god’. (and feel a pang of foolishness afterwards) It is a habit, and there isn’t an alternative to express the same feeling. “Thank god I put my coat on today” doesn’t seem to have a nice-sounding atheistic alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/16 "2004-11-10T19:17:40Z")
Perhaps as a Pratchett fan I should say “Thank Gods” Or as a Doper “Thank og”, (but then people would look at me funny) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/17 "2004-11-10T20:44:11Z")
Slight hijack - In the Israeli army, soldiers have to take an oath of service after they join up. Traditionally, it’s done with one hand on a rifle and the other on a bible. No diety is mentioned inthe oath. Now, Jewish troops are issued a Tanach (OT), Christian a KJV, Muslims a Quran and Druze a copy of their holy writings. By military law, any soldier is allowed to refuse to swear on a religious text, in which case they’re given a book of poetry instead for the same purpose. In my day it was an anthology of the works of Nathan Alterman, premiere Israeli poet of the 1940’s and 50’s. It’s a nice custom. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/18 "2004-11-10T21:37:36Z")
Another passionate athiest weighing in here. I wouldn’t mind swearing on a bible. It doesn’t have any mystical or otherwise special significance. I’d tell the truth whether I was swearing on a bible, or affirming, or not. I attended a Quaker boarding school and learned that Friends (the term Quakers use to identify themselves) object to swearing on bibles, opting to affirm they would tell the truth instead. As I remember, they don’t want to use God as an indicator of whether they are in truth telling mode or not, and in any case are always in truth telling mode. So, in a sense, swearing on a bible cheapens it. Anybody knows otherwise, please chime in! Like many things in American society, swearing on a bible is (among other things) a symbolic gesture underscoring for all participants how important it is to be truthful, accurate, complete, and conscientious. I can understand that message without being religious. ---
**Author:** ![trupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@trupa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trupa)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/19 "2004-11-10T22:56:01Z")
Please forgive the vagueness of this post, I guess I still have some ignorance to banish on this topic… As a Christian, I would actually have some reluctance to “_swear_” & swear “_on the bible_” for a couple of reasons: First, isn’t there a commandment in Scripture against swearing? Secondly, isn’t the meaning of swearing “on” some thing the wish that harm come to that “thing” if you lie, i.e. \* “if I lie, may this bible be destroyed/desacrated because of me and the guilt be held against my soul”\*? with the fear of the weight of the sin being the motivator to tell the truth? You also hear of people swearing on"_their mother’s head_" or “_their mother’s grave_” meaning may somehting bad happend to their Mom if they lie… It just makes so much more sense to me to say “I’m telling the turth, and may I be convicted of perjury if found to be lying?” So, any other Christians down there in those red states 😉 willing to enlighten me on the theology of swearing on Scripture? ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040/20 "2004-11-10T22:58:06Z")
At one time I was on the local criminal court grand jury. Prior to testimony the witness was asked: “Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-atheists-testify-in-court/274040.md?page=2)