# How do bar bands pay royalties? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951 "2017-06-02T19:12:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/21 "2017-06-03T01:46:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Churches pay royalties? > > I guess you mean the hymns sung during services? Yes, they are, if they are copyrighted. Wanna know why you never hear people sing “Happy Birthday” on TV or in the movies? Until recently, this is why. > **[Happy Birthday to You](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You)** > > "Happy Birthday to You", or simply "Happy Birthday", is a song traditionally sung to celebrate a person's birthday. According to the 1998 Guinness World Records, it is the most recognized song in the English language, followed by "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow". The song's base lyrics have been translated into at least 18 languages. The melody of "Happy Birthday to You" comes from the song "Good Morning to All", which has traditionally been attributed to American sisters Patty and Mildred J. Th... ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/22 "2017-06-03T01:56:53Z")
If I sadly have to attend the church of my fathers, I’ve found not only has **Hymns Ancient and Modern** been replaced with **The New English Hymnal** ( I don’t really _mind_, but frankly a lot of modern praise is dire, in a clap-happy soft way ) [see wiki **[hymnals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English-language_hymnals_by_denomination)** under Anglican section ] and in both even 18th century hymns \* have a copyright symbol and usually a reference to **[Kevin Mayhew](https://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&client=ubuntu&q=kevin+mayhew+copyright&oq=kevin+mayhew+copyright&gs_l=serp.3..0i22i30k1.7606.12040.0.13374.10.10.0.0.0.0.418.1365.8j0j1j0j1.10.0....0...1.1.64.serp..0.10.1347...0.9ucWILHG-XM)**[Ltd] who appears to administer copyright at least. - I don’t see how songs praising God can be copyrighted because that _restricts_ praise: I doubt if the English authors of classic hymns such as **Amazing Grace** ( **[1779](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing_Grace)** ) or **Rock of Ages** ( **[1763](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Ages_(Christian_hymn))** ) could ever imagine copyright on those songs centuries later. Let alone foreign hymns from earlier times. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/23 "2017-06-03T02:04:42Z")
How do the funds get from the coffers of BMI, ASCAP and SESAC get into the hands of the actual songwriters (copyright holders)? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/24 "2017-06-03T02:41:59Z")
The licensing organizations have a database of songwriters. They factor in how often their songs are played and send a check. Note that the songwriters get a very high percentage of the money taken in; ASCAP and the like keep their administrative costs down to pass through most of the money to the writers. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/25 "2017-06-03T07:27:12Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > My wife works for The Church and has to, quarterly, send in a complete list of all copyrighted songs played there. Or, she’s threatened with _eternal damnation_! 😉 Tell her that Under The Milky Way was a great song and Starfish was a terrific album. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/26 "2017-06-03T12:05:10Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Yes, they are, if they are copyrighted. > > Wanna know why you never hear people sing “Happy Birthday” on TV or in the movies? Until recently, this is why. > > [Happy Birthday to You - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You) [Restaurants](https://youtu.be/T3jNaKRyxcI?t=270), either. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/27 "2017-06-03T15:01:44Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Tell her that Under The Milky Way was a great song and Starfish was a terrific album. Heathen. 😉 😃 I still get confused with Counting Crows vs Casting Crowns. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/28 "2017-06-03T18:10:35Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Occam’s Razor suggests either a) ASCAP didn’t send a sticker or b) someone peeled it off. Or maybe c) a business so disorganized/clueless/financially troubled that they paid fees to only one of the two licensing companies. > > (I’ve never noticed a BMI or ASCAP sticker – how long ago was this, and where, may I ask?) It was back in the '80’s. Glen Burnie, MD. I definitely remember seeing at least one sticker. Frankly it was so long ago, that there could have been an ASCAP logo there too, I just don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/29 "2017-06-03T18:57:07Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The licensing organizations have a database of songwriters. They factor in how often their songs are played and send a check. Note that the songwriters get a very high percentage of the money taken in; ASCAP and the like keep their administrative costs down to pass through most of the money to the writers. Dolly Parton said something to the effect that she wasn’t sorry the Whitney Houston made Dolly’s song “I Will Always Love You” famous (again), because she got royalties every time it’s played. StG ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/30 "2017-06-03T23:02:07Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Tell her that Under The Milky Way was a great song and Starfish was a terrific album. My favorite song by the Church is “Tantalized”. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/J6lIG_qg-Jw/hqdefault.jpg "The Church-Tantalized") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6lIG_qg-Jw) As for hymns and other should-be-public-domain sacred music, while the song itself may not be copyrighted, certain arrangements may be. I’ll ask our organist tomorrow if I remember. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/31 "2017-06-07T13:58:21Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > Dolly Parton said something to the effect that she wasn’t sorry the Whitney Houston made Dolly’s song “I Will Always Love You” famous (again), because she got royalties every time it’s played. > > StG The songwriter is the only person in music who consistently makes money - mostly because written sheet music predates the record industry and they had their whole system set up to benefit songwriters. Unless you’re talked into giving up your song publishing, you get a fixed amount for every single and album track. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/32 "2017-06-07T15:08:17Z")
Proper licensing is a big deal. [Here](http://onstagemagazine.com/bmi-sues-bar-for-cover-band-show-over-1-5m/)is a short article about one lawsuit filed by BMI against a Cleveland nightclub from a couple of years ago. It points out that establishments may need up to three licenses, costing at a minimum $800.00 each annually. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/33 "2017-06-07T15:39:24Z")
Now that you mention it, the music at my church is about an equal mix of songs old enough to be out of copyright and songs new enough that they would be. Does someone have to keep track of what proportion of church music is in copyright, or do they just assume a standard mix? Or are all of the modern songs in the hymnal there because their composers have given a blanket license for churches to perform them? That would explain why there are a few names that come up over and over again on the bylines (David Haas, Bernadette Farrell, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/34 "2017-06-07T16:17:18Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Even though “Christian Rock Music” is an oxymoron, . No, it’s hardly a oxymoron. I wish people would stop misusing that word. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/35 "2017-06-07T16:28:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, it’s hardly a oxymoron. I wish people would stop misusing that word. > [@](#): > > a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction Sure, if you do not consider “christian rock” to be “music” then it is an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/36 "2017-06-07T16:48:24Z")
> [@moldmonkey](#): > > On summer weekend nights, we project movies out onto the neighbors building for guests in the beer garden. I only use non-copyrighted movies which is anything from before 1923 and certain other movies that have let the copyright expire. I download them from a website that guaranties they are public domain. _ **Companies that package old non-copyright movies onto DVDs put their own copyright onto their version.** _ Emphasis mine. I’m not sure what you mean by “put their own copyright,” but if a piece of intellectual property like a movie is out of copyright, you can’t create new copyright just because you happen to whack the movie onto a DVD and sell it. There are dozens on places online where you can find movies whose copyright protection has expired. If I take one of those old, out-of-copyright movies and stick it onto a DVD, i can legally sell as many of those DVDs as i want. What i cannot do, however, is claim to hold copyright over the movie. Nor can i prevent anyone from showing that movie in any setting they like. Simply changing format, or making a copy of a public domain work, does not create new copyright. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951/37 "2017-06-07T17:54:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Sure, if you do not consider “christian rock” to be “music” then it is an oxymoron. I read that in a more Jack Chick-like “christian” and “rock music”. But both work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-bar-bands-pay-royalties/787951.md?page=1)