# How do Buddhist monks who self-immolate maintain their composure? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925 "2015-09-20T04:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gracefulfatsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@gracefulfatsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracefulfatsheba)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/1 "2015-09-20T04:08:21Z")
I was just watching the Italian exploitation ‘documentary’ “Mondo Cane 2” and it has a horrific scene where a Buddhist monk self-immolates. The footage appears to be real. Surprisingly, he basically maintains his sitting position for the entire time until he finally falls backward rather gracefully (presumably at the point he dies or loses consciousness). There’s no violent squirming or rolling. Can someone explain how this is even possible? Surely the unbearable pain that comes from being burned this way far surpasses any kind of “mastery” over your emotions that spirituality could offer. Wouldn’t human instinct more or less force you to try to put out the fire? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/2 "2015-09-20T05:13:44Z")
Humans really don’t have much in the way of instinct. Also, when the burns get to third degree the nerves are destroyed and no longer feel pain. It’s second degree burns, typically surrounding charred areas, that feel the worst pain. That said, it is possible for a human being to be in a mental state where either he feels no pain, or does not register/react to the pain he experiences. Years of meditating and mental discipline allow the monks to achieve that state and maintain it until, as you put it, they fall over and die. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/3 "2015-09-20T05:52:50Z")
[Thích Nhất Hạnh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Nh%E1%BA%A5t_H%E1%BA%A1nh) was a monk at the monastery with [Thích Quảng Đức](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thich_Quang_Duc), the monk who famously torched himself to protest the Diem regime in 1963. He wrote about it in one of his many books. (Sorry, I don’t remember which one I read. He’s written lots and lots of books.) He writes that Thích Quảng Đức planned it out months in advance, and meditated daily on it for months. He also writes that he could see the horrible pain on Quảng Đức’s face through the fire. But with enough years of meditation and mindfulness, one can learn to dissociate oneself from the sufferings of this temporal world, and gain the self-control to accept that. For us Western non-Buddhists who weren’t raised among those kinds of traditions, it all sounds very abstract and impossible. But I guess they can do that. ETA: BTW, they all seem to have names that begin with Thích. My brother, whose ex-wife studied with Thích Nhất Hạnh, told me he thinks it’s more of an honorific title meaning “Priest”, rather than an actual name. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/4 "2015-09-20T10:49:05Z")
Besides meditation and mental discipline i guess some opium could help. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/5 "2015-09-20T10:56:56Z")
“Thich” is a [Dharma-(sur)name](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_name) that monks in Vietnam take during initiation. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/6 "2015-09-20T11:15:51Z")
Within the next few years after that, several American college students tried to “partially self-immolate” in protest of the Viet Nam war. Instead of dousing themselves from head to foot, they would douse just one arm or one leg, light it up, and then roll around on the ground screaming and trying to put it out just as **gracefulfatsheba** imagines one would. Maybe they didn’t meditate long enough. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/7 "2015-09-20T16:29:04Z")
Stoic silence in the face of pain and death has been an admired quality in many cultures. You see it in tales of Japanese samurai, Indian kshatriya, Christian saints, Viking warriors, and conflicts between Native American tribes. In many tribal cultures, war captives faced death by torture. You gained honor for your tribe if you faced the torture silently, or better yet, defiantly. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/8 "2015-09-20T16:35:08Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Within the next few years after that, several American college students tried to “partially self-immolate” in protest of the Viet Nam war. Instead of dousing themselves from head to foot, they would douse just one arm or one leg, light it up, and then roll around on the ground screaming and trying to put it out just as **gracefulfatsheba** imagines one would. Maybe they didn’t meditate long enough. One guy did it at my alma mater twelve years before I started there. He was successful. [Self-immolation of George Winne Jr. - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Winne,_Jr). ---
**Author:** ![edwardcoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@edwardcoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwardcoast)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/9 "2015-09-21T11:00:09Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > One guy did it at my alma mater twelve years before I started there. He was successful. > > [Self-immolation of George Winne Jr. - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Winne,_Jr). What a profoundly sad thing to do. More to their cause could be achieved by living and speaking out on it, than a suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/10 "2015-09-21T12:09:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Also, when the burns get to third degree the nerves are destroyed and no longer feel pain. It’s second degree burns, typically surrounding charred areas, that feel the worst pain. People often say something like this, which implies that there are no pain receptors below a certain depth, and that once the skin is destroyed, it’s not possible to feel pain. I haven’t been shot or stabbed or experienced a full-depth burn, but I’m suspicious of the notion that there is no sensation of pain when subdermal tissue is injured by heat (or any other means). Can anyone confirm whether this is true? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/11 "2015-09-21T16:56:32Z")
My statement was based on both a fascination of medicine and speaking with people I know who had suffered severe burns. _Where the nerves are destroyed_ there is no pain. If an area is charred black (although burned to death tissue may have other colors as well) there will be no sensation _in that area_. Nerves nearby that are still active/alive WILL feel pain, intense pain. That includes both nerves adjacent and nerves _under_ the affected area. So a _small_ area of third degree burn can be excruciatingly painful due to nerve damage near to that area. The more extensive the area of destructive burn, though, the fewer intact nerves there will be to signal pain. Third degree burn on your arm? Horribly painful. Third degree burn over 90% of your body? A lot of nerves have been destroyed, it may be less painful than a smaller burn area, particularly if the destruction reaches down to the bone (sometimes called a fourth degree burn). ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/12 "2015-09-21T17:09:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Where the nerves are destroyed there is no pain. If an area is charred black (although burned to death tissue may have other colors as well) there will be no sensation in that area. Nerves nearby that are still active/alive WILL feel pain, intense pain. That includes both nerves adjacent and nerves under the affected area. That was kind of my point, though. Until you’ve incinerated the flesh down to the bone, there are still functional nociceptors beneath the insensately burned zone. In the case of Thích Quảng Đức, much of his skin surely was burned to the point of no pain within the first ~10 seconds or so, but it would have taken far longer for the underlying muscles to be burned to the point of no pain; it would surely have been _minutes_ before the pain actually began to taper down. Unless someone knows otherwise, I would speculate that his cause of death was asphyxiation (due to inhaling superheated air and searing his lungs to the point inhibiting O2 exchange), or exsanguination when a major artery was charred to the point of rupture, either of which would happen long before his flesh was charred to the bone. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/13 "2015-09-21T17:34:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Humans really don’t have much in the way of instinct… Really? :dubious: I wonder why you think this. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-buddhist-monks-who-self-immolate-maintain-their-composure/731925/14 "2015-09-22T02:29:39Z")
Because we don’t? What instincts do you think humans have? Reflexes, those we have - that’s what leads you to jerk your hand back from a hot surface. That’s not an instinct.