# How do caucuses and delegates work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 7, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697 "2017-07-07T15:07:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/1 "2017-07-07T15:07:28Z")
Sorry, maybe this is something I missed in civics or US history, but what exactly is a political “caucus” and what is this about delegates and superdelegates? My pieced-together guess is that each state has a certain number of delegates (determined how, I don’t know) that they send to some national convention (same thing as a delegate), and then those delegates are supposed to vote the will of the their states on the national level and thus choose national representatives… is that in the ballpark at all? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/2 "2017-07-07T18:08:02Z")
> **[United States presidential primary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_primary)** > > The presidential primary elections and caucuses held in the various states, the District of Columbia, and territories of the United States form part of the nominating process of candidates for United States presidential elections. The United States Constitution has never specified the process; political parties have developed their own procedures over time. Some states hold only primary elections, some hold only caucuses, and others use a combination of both. These primaries and caucuses are s... Ok, a caucus is a local or a series of local meetings. There, people who are involved and willing to take a few hours or a day off mill around, discuss, hear maybe a speech, then gather in groups. The groups are counted. Most states hold primaries, where a parties members vote. Each State gets to choose. The party assigns the number of delegates each state gets, usually based on population. In either case, the result is delegates. In the past, there was often no voting, the Parties bigwigs would decide. To carry on that tradition, the DNC has appointed some number of delegates from each state to be “superdelegates”, who are usually Party faithful. They are not bound by the voting and can vote how they wish. In almost every case, they vote the way the election went anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/3 "2017-07-07T18:24:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > To carry on that tradition, the DNC has appointed some number of delegates from each state to be “superdelegates”, who are usually Party faithful. They are not bound by the voting and can vote how they wish. In almost every case, they vote the way the election went anyway. The key word being almost every case. Here’s how my state voted: ```auto Bernie Sanders 19,159 0 Hillary Clinton 7,140 10 ``` Clinton got the delegates, even though 19,159 \> 7,140. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/4 "2017-07-07T18:39:03Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The key word being almost every case. Here’s how my state voted: > > ```auto > > Bernie Sanders 19,159 0 > Hillary Clinton 7,140 10 > > ``` > > Clinton got the delegates, even though 19,159 \> 7,140. That was because Washington had weird caucuses, which are anti-democratic. If they had held a primary, Clinton would have won. 57% polled for Clinton, 24% for sanders. Washington is a good example of why caucuses are bad. In the end, the superdelegates went for who was gonna win the primary. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/5 "2017-07-07T18:48:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In the end, the superdelegates went for who was gonna win the primary. …and lose the election. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/6 "2017-07-07T18:53:24Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > …and lose the election. Happens about half the time, you know. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/7 "2017-07-09T04:18:30Z")
Note that this is an internal party thing; there is no official or constitutional rule for selecting a candidate before the general election. Most states have primaries. It is similar to the general election in that you show up, check in, vote, and leave. Some are closed primaries in that you have to be a party member to vote. Some are open in that you can choose a Democratic, Republican, or neither ballot (but only one) at the door. You usually also vote for measures, propositions, and local offices at the same time. Some states have open for one party and closed for the other. Caucuses are often several hours long. The parties go to different locations and often different dates. They are de facto closed. They are often multistage affairs where issues are discussed and they do head counts to check how much support each candidate has. Though in 2016 my state Republican party supposedly started allowing you to just vote and leave, though the lines looked long. I hope it’s not violating GQ too much, but caucuses are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/8 "2017-07-09T10:03:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Happens about half the time, you know. A/ Not generally to candidates expected by most commentators to win a landslide epic victory of at least 2 - 1. Including the bloody old loon herself. B/ Not to losing against Donald Fucking Trump. HILLARY CLINTON ON TRACK FOR ELECTORAL COLLEGE LANDSLIDE: POLL BY REUTERS ON 10/15/16 AT 4:55 PM Newsweek Donald Trump ‘could lose by the first landslide in a generation’ against Hillary Clinton in the US election Daily Telegraph UK What A Hillary Landslide Will Mean It will feel great but it won’t make much of a difference in how she governs. JUSTIN ROSARIO OCT 23, 2016 The Daily Banter _[With less than 3 weeks left, Trump’s best chance of winning is for Hillary Clinton to fall down an open wormhole and pop out on the other side of the universe.]_ Hillary Clinton by a landslide The odds are so much in her favour that Trump might eventually withdraw from the race 06 Aug 2016 Indian Express Nate Silver’s Election Prediction Says Hillary Clinton Will Win By A Landslide The Daily Bustle 19 Oct 2016 Democrats see Clinton landslide, takeover of Congress on horizon The San Francisco Chronicle 12 Oct 2016 US Presidentials: Clinton To Trounce Donald Trump In ‘Landslide’ Spreadbet Firm Predicts Forbes 14 Oct 2017 The stock market has already picked the next U.S. president Market strategist says history favors Clinton; ‘investors like landslide victories’ MarketWatch 03 Sept 2016 New Polls Show Clinton on Pace for a Landslide New York Mag 17 Oct 2016 New Polls Show Why Hillary IS Winning GOP Early Voters & WILL Win In Landslide Daily Kos Wednesday Nov 02, 2016 · 3:03 PM GMT Hillary Clinton headed for a landslide victory to become the first female president of US Your Story 20 Oct 2016 I will say no matter how vile Donald, seeing the media fail so spectacularly was the most amusing national event in my life. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/9 "2017-07-09T13:13:55Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Sorry, maybe this is something I missed in civics or US history, but what exactly is a political “caucus” and what is this about delegates and superdelegates? While both are internal to the party, in a way, typically the causus is made up of the people actually elected to the public office. The term superdelegates are for the Democrats, where the delegates come from each state to vote at Washington for their candidate to run for president, just like republican delegates do for their canditate, but as well as delegates there are superdelegates. Superdelegates are really just extra-delegates, and include the National Comittee, a whole bunch of people chosen by the national committee, and important people such past Presidents and candidates, and current state public office holders (at the level of Governor or state house.). You can find the complete list. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/10 "2017-07-09T13:23:57Z")
Ran out of time. While both are internal to the party, in a way, typically the causus is made up of the people actually elected to the public office, but from the same party (or coalition of two or three parties if they run the govenment, but thats when they agree to run as if one party… which they will do on the long term, not just random issues.) The caucus is specific to that level of government, and they aren’t official in any sense. What happens is that the party organisers discuss the issues with the members of the caucus, eg ask for show of hands, and assure themselves of support for their next actions… eg then formulate their bills - this saves them writing a bill only to find the causus doesn’t support it. It also means that the discussion about any issue is done internal to the party and is kept secret behind locked doors… What they do on the floor of the house is only the practice speeches and showing off to the public… eg in question and answer sessions and so called “debates”, which typically is a slanging match of “me correct, you wrong. you were wrong in 1865 and you are wrong today”… thats what gets on the record and sent to the media… ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/11 "2017-07-09T16:19:16Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Ran out of time. > While both are internal to the party, in a way, typically the causus is made up of the people actually elected to the public office, but from the same party (or coalition of two or three parties if they run the govenment, but thats when they agree to run as if one party… which they will do on the long term, not just random issues.) The caucus is specific to that level of government, and they aren’t official in any sense. What happens is that the party organisers discuss the issues with the members of the caucus, eg ask for show of hands, and assure themselves of support for their next actions… eg then formulate their bills - this saves them writing a bill only to find the causus doesn’t support it. It also means that the discussion about any issue is done internal to the party and is kept secret behind locked doors… What they do on the floor of the house is only the practice speeches and showing off to the public… eg in question and answer sessions and so called “debates”, which typically is a slanging match of “me correct, you wrong. you were wrong in 1865 and you are wrong today”… thats what gets on the record and sent to the media… But what you are referring to in your second half are the caucuses in the legislature (mainly the House in the US) which is, according to wiki, “a group of members of the United States Congress that meets to pursue common legislative objectives.” There’s quite a [number](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucuses_of_the_United_States_Congress) of them and, especially in today’s highly polarized House, they mainly consist of members of the same party, there is no requirement that this be so. A Democrat from Minnesota and a Republican from Wisconsin, for example, could both be members of Congressional Dairy Farmer Caucus. Although the OP is not specific, the phrase “caucuses and delegates” in the title makes me believe **Reply** was referring to election caucuses which is an entirely different beast. Back in the bad old days, before presidential primary became popular, most of the delegates for both Democrats and Republicans to their respective national convention were selected by the state legislature and other party stalwarts and voters in general had no input in the process. [Iowa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_caucuses) was the main exception to this and instead, had voters of their respective parties meet in all 1,600+ precincts to vote for their favorite candidate and even have some input on the party platform. Later on when both parties decided to open up their candidate selection process, most states opted for primary elections but Iowa stuck to what it knew. Now all this, primary or caucus, open or party hack, is party business and is not mentioned in the Constitution or (I believe) Federal law. Even in those states with presidential primaries, most of them will let the alternative parties (at least) opt out. In the 2016 election cycle, the [Green](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Green_Party_Presidential_Primaries_Results_2016.svg/959px-Green_Party_Presidential_Primaries_Results_2016.svg.png) party had a lot more primary elections than the [Libertarian](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Libertarian_Party_presidential_primaries_results%2C_2016.svg/959px-Libertarian_Party_presidential_primaries_results%2C_2016.svg.png) party did. The parents of **DesertWife** were active in the Republican party in Iowa and she remember being taken to several of the caususes there. The activism stuck, the party did not. ---
**Author:** ![Fleetwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fleetwood/32/271_2.png) [@Fleetwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fleetwood)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/12 "2017-07-09T16:42:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That was because Washington had weird caucuses, which are anti-democratic. If they had held a primary, Clinton would have won. 57% polled for Clinton, 24% for sanders. > > Washington is a good example of why caucuses are bad. > > In the end, the superdelegates went for who was gonna win the primary. In New Hampshire, Sanders had over sixty percent of the primary votes, but thanks to superdelegates, only tied Clinton 16-16 in total delegates. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/13 "2017-07-09T17:25:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The key word being almost every case. Here’s how my state voted: > > ```auto > > Bernie Sanders 19,159 0 > Hillary Clinton 7,140 10 > > ``` > > Clinton got the delegates, even though 19,159 \> 7,140. I’m not sure what numbers you’re reporting. I can’t think of a single stage where Washington has 10 delegates. We sent 89 non-Superdelegates to the national convention in 2016 Delegate count at the precinct caucuses (not including superdelegates/PLEO): Sanders: 19135 (~ 73%) Clinton: 7136 (~ 27%) Delegate votes sent to the national convention (not including superdelegates/PLEO): Sanders: 65 (~ 73%) Clinton: 24 (27%) ([cite](http://www.wa-democrats.org/page/2016-democratic-caucuses) it includes the delegates’ names and who they intended to vote for when they became delegates) Also, we have 29 PLEO & Superdelegates. They did go predominately for Clinton - but still, even including them, the floor vote was 62% Sanders. I’m really not sure what the 10 in your table is referring to. But Clinton did not “get the delegates.” ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/14 "2017-07-09T18:38:05Z")
To the OP, very roughly speaking: The parties aren’t a government organization; they’re private clubs. For the purposes of this - it may help to think of them as a collection of private clubs that have a national club, a group of state clubs, and various local clubs. The national club tells each state club (and/or district and/or territory), “We are voting for our candidate on this day. Show up on this date with \_\_\_\_ number of people ready to vote.” Each state’s number of people is determined by the club’s formula - it gives some weight to the state population and it gives some weight to the number of people in that state who tend to vote for the party. It also gives weight to lots of other things. Each party uses its own formula - so the number of total delegates is different party to party, the number of delegates in each state is different party to party. Each state/district/territory club needs to figure out both how they want to allocate their votes and who the people who will actually show up and cast them are. They are given some rules by the national club, but every state can do its own thing - within the rules that the national club has set up for everyone and the state club has set up for itself. One common way of allocation is by primary, where everyone votes - and that vote may allocate people proportionally (you get 20% of the votes, you get 20% of the delegates), but not necessarily. It may be winner take all, it may be winner take all after a certain percentage, it may be winner take most, it may drop down to a different level (legislative, county, or congressional). There’s a lot of variance there - and again, within each state, each party may be doing something different. (There’s also a lot of variance in who gets to cast a vote - this again varies by state and by party). The other common way is by caucus, where people in a precinct get together and decide what they want to do next and who is going to represent them. Then you do have to figure out who is going to cast those votes - the delegates (the state chair & her friends? elected on the primary ballot? large donors? large volunteers? chosen by the group of people at the caucus?) again, this changes from state to state/party to party. Also, what those delegates are supposed to do varies - it is not necessarily “the will of the people.” Some are tied to a particular candidate. Some were tied to a candidate who dropped out, and now are tied to a different candidate. Some were tied to a candidate who dropped out and are allowed to do whatever. Some have said that they were to vote a particular way. Some have no restrictions at all - but people suspect they’re going to do something. And of course, because they are people and this is America, once they show up on that day - they can really do whatever the heck they want. The penalties for voting “wrong” vary from party to party on the national, state, and perhaps even lower level. Some people find the consequences worth it. Superdelegates: The Democrats have decided that as well as using their formula to determine how many votes each state gets, certain people get a vote. Governors, Senators, Representatives, former Presidents, state party chairs, etc. Each of them gets a vote - if they want it - and they can do whatever they want with it. (According to some people, the superdelegates influence the electorate. According to some, the electorate influences the superdelegates. There’s evidence both ways.). At this time, Republicans do not have superdelegates. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/15 "2017-07-10T00:59:33Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > 1. Including the bloody old loon herself. **Moderator Warning** **Evan Drake** , political jabs are not permitted in General Questions. This is an official warning. Do not do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-caucuses-and-delegates-work/790697/16 "2017-07-10T01:01:19Z")
Let’s move this to Elections. Colibri General Questions Moderator