# How do classical musicians do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [November 10, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052 "2024-11-10T23:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/41 "2024-11-11T15:29:49Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Do the parts written for the guys in the middle of an orchestra typically tend to be less demanding? Yes, in the sense that the second- and third-chair parts usually contain inner harmonic lines rather than exposed melodic lines. On the other hand, in the woodwind section, it’s usually a lower-chair player who’s responsible for one of the “specialty” instruments like piccolo or contrabassoon. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/42 "2024-11-11T15:36:51Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever heard a discordant note (that wasn’t intended) in a classical performance. Tell that to [Bobby Cornrow](https://youtu.be/MzXoVo16pTg?si=YBARu2p8bji9m2jd&t=51). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/43 "2024-11-11T16:07:42Z")
There’s safety in numbers. A small mistake will be hidden by the other players. My high school orchestra had class every school day. The entire class was spent learning and rehearsing a specific piece. We sometimes had a after-school practice just before a public performance. I was in the 2nd violin section. There was at least 12 playing the same part. I found myself being swept along. I didn’t have to think about counting rhythm. If I was a little off pitch it was covered up by the other people. It didn’t happen often. I was listening to the other players and playing in tune or very close. 😉 Also, seating was important. The first two rows were our best players. The weakest were on the back row. The public mostly heard the front rows of players. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/44 "2024-11-11T16:34:05Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Yeah, but airline pilots who screw up landings usually don’t get a lot more chances to do it right, one way or another. We’ve all been in a landing or two where it felt like we just landed on a carrier. A lot of those pilots are not ex-Navy. 🙂 I once watched a jet land at Sky Harbor on a hot summer afternoon, and the plane got stuck in ground effect and sailed halfway down the runway steady at 30 feet above it. I’m sure the passengers never noticed, but any pilot watching sure did!. As for symphonies never making a mistake, I will mention that we pay attemtion to the performers at the Phoenix Symphony, and they often sit in different places at different performances. Quite possibly because they have been making mistakes and get demoted. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/45 "2024-11-11T17:00:07Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > God yes. It’s like you have to lay a track over it and then grind it until the mistake is completely erased. I have always found that if there is one weak spot in a piece that I always have to focus to get right, I will invariably get it wrong in performance. That’s so true. In my experience, if I start focusing on what I’m playing, then I’m sure to hit a flub. The best playing that I do is when I stop thinking and let my fingers run over the keys. So, I have a choice between playing with some interpretative intention and messing things up, or playing flawlessly but blandly. This doesn’t apply to pieces I’m learning because then I’m constantly focusing on the best fingerings, while still playing wrong notes all the time. I’m currently working on the [Fauré’s 1st Nocturne](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1CHImcrSzU), and the accidentals are a real pain. But at least, I can chalk my mistakes up to having just started sight-reading this, which doesn’t fly as an excuse for pieces I’ve played for years and years. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/46 "2024-11-11T17:05:23Z")
> [@Moonrise](#): > > > [@DPRK](#): > > > > Once I heard Radu Lupu apologize after a Rachmaninoff piano concerto. He admitted he played one (1) wrong note somewhere. Anyone who did not have the piece memorized would not have been able to tell. > > On a similar note, > > _…after Richter realised that he had been playing a wrong note in Bach’s [Italian Concerto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Concerto,_BWV_971) for decades, he insisted that the following disclaimer/apology be printed on a CD containing a performance thereof: “Just now Sviatoslav Richter realised, much to his regret, that he always made a mistake in the third measure before the end of the second part of the ‘Italian Concerto’. As a matter of fact, through forty years – and no musician or technician ever pointed it out to him – he played ‘F-sharp’ rather than ‘F’. The same mistake can be found in the previous recording made by Maestro Richter in the fifties.”_ > > Famously, Marta Argerich’s 1982 recording of [Tchaikovsky’s 1st Piano Concerto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aIJdpSzlH0) has a couple of wrong notes at the beginning of the last movement. It’s still one of the all-time best recording of that concerto in my opinion. At some point, the meaning of “mistake” needs to be dissected. Rarely are pieces performed exactly as scored. The composer themselves don’t always capture their own intent in the score. And then the conductor puts their own interpretations on how the parts fit together. And the musicians as well interpret pieces in a particular way. And finally each member of the audience experiences a performance in their idiosyncratic way. Is playing a note differently than scored a “mistake” if it successfully transmits the composer’s original intent? That’s always going to be subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/47 "2024-11-11T17:08:03Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Is playing a note differently than scored a “mistake” if it successfully transmits the composer’s original intent? An actual different pitch? Yeah, I think that’s a mistake. A different tempo or feel? Maybe not. But I’m pretty sure every professional conductor would say that you can’t change the actual notes on the page. But I’m very happy to be corrected if someone has first-hand experience with a conductor or performer saying “nope, sorry Beethoven, F# better captures the mood of the piece here than F”. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/48 "2024-11-11T17:35:54Z")
Thanks to all for the informative responses. > [@StringsandHammers](#): > > That’s the sort of discipline you need to be a classical musician. If you dont have that sort of discipline then you aint cut out to be a classical musician, try rock or jazz. I don’t think there’s any need to disparage jazz musicians here. Charlie Parker famously practiced 8-10 hours a day, as did Coltrane and many others. Get back to me when you can improvise like those guys. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/49 "2024-11-11T17:41:13Z")
I figure this is as good a thread to ask as any other: I wouldn’t be able, for the life of my, to tell a bravura performance by a virtuoso violinist on a Stradivarius, from an _acceptable_ performance by an _acceptable_ musician on an _acceptable_ violin. Can fans of classical music really tell the difference? Are you able to tell, when you’ve left the concert hall, that you’ve experienced something truly special? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/50 "2024-11-11T18:09:09Z")
Another side issue is that when it comes to performance, avoiding mistakes isn’t the point, playing well is the point. Depending on the situation, you may want to be less conservative, more aggressive/flamboyant, and leave more of an impression that way. A musician who makes zero mistakes and is always focused on making zero mistakes may result in a boring, flavorless, bland but correct performance. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/51 "2024-11-11T18:23:43Z")
Now imagine the session musicians on orchestral film scores who are asked to get their part perfect in one take without having all of those hours upon hours to practice and perfect their parts. Mistakes mean a second take and if you do that more than a couple times, you won’t get hired again. These guys, day in and day out, walk into a studio, sit down in front of a piece of new music, sometimes dozens of pages long, and sightread it perfectly. That’s where the real pressure is. ---
**Author:** ![StringsandHammers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stringsandhammers/32/17933_2.png) [@StringsandHammers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StringsandHammers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/52 "2024-11-11T18:32:20Z")
“I don’t think there’s any need to disparage jazz musicians here. Charlie Parker famously practiced 8-10 hours a day, as did Coltrane and many others.” Like my College jazz instructor was fond of saying “if you play a wrong note in jazz then play it 2 more times and it will become a right note.” The soul of jazz is improvization, it’s different. Classical music pares really well with OCD. Jazz people pares with people who aren’t sticklers at coloring inside the lines at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/53 "2024-11-11T18:32:39Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > I don’t think there’s any need to disparage jazz musicians here. Charlie Parker famously practiced 8-10 hours a day, as did Coltrane and many others. > > Get back to me when you can improvise like those guys. I’ve known a number of accomplished classical musicians who had no ability whatsoever to improvise. The idea of composing on the spot is terrifying to them. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/54 "2024-11-11T18:50:48Z")
I like YouTube videos of orchestras performing classical pieces, like the Beethoven symphonies. Usually, I pick the ones from the Vienna Philharmonic or another top orchestra and am sitting there marveling that every single one of those musicians, even the guy on the kettle drum, is at the top of his or her game, and better than thousands out there who play the same instrument. It’s also fun to watch the different ways the conductors do their thing. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/55 "2024-11-11T18:52:41Z")
Sometimes even top performers may make a mistake, I happened to just see a [Youtube short](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PRaFbcIoD8Y) of Martha Argerich making a glaring error. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/56 "2024-11-11T20:23:43Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > At some point, the meaning of “mistake” needs to be dissected. Rarely are pieces performed exactly as scored. The composer themselves don’t always capture their own intent in the score. And then the conductor puts their own interpretations on how the parts fit together. And the musicians as well interpret pieces in a particular way. And finally each member of the audience experiences a performance in their idiosyncratic way. > > Is playing a note differently than scored a “mistake” if it successfully transmits the composer’s original intent? That’s always going to be subjective. It is at least theoretically possible for there to be a typo or mistake and therefore one will have to figure out the composer’s true original intent. See discussions like [https://notat.io/viewtopic.php?t=1036](https://notat.io/viewtopic.php?t=1036) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/57 "2024-11-11T20:24:37Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > I’ve known a number of accomplished classical musicians who had no ability whatsoever to improvise. The idea of composing on the spot is terrifying to them. A friend of mine and his wife are both excellent musicians. He plays guitar like Jerry Garcia and she’s a classical pianist. It’s literally not possible for them to play together. There are exceptions though. Bela Fleck can do both on banjo. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/58 "2024-11-11T20:34:53Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > Now imagine the session musicians on orchestral film scores who are asked to get their part perfect in one take without having all of those hours upon hours to practice and perfect their parts. Mistakes mean a second take and if you do that more than a couple times, you won’t get hired again. These guys, day in and day out, walk into a studio, sit down in front of a piece of new music, sometimes dozens of pages long, and sightread it perfectly. That’s where the real pressure is. This. I just watched this documentary about film score composers, which features many scenes in recording studios with session musicians. At one point, someone asks, “How much do they rehearse before they record?” To which the answer is, not at all. It’s amazing. I highly recommend the film. > **[Score (2016) ⭐ 7.5 | Documentary, Music](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4207112/)** > > 1h 33m | Not Rated ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/59 "2024-11-11T20:52:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > A musician who makes zero mistakes and is always focused on making zero mistakes may result in a boring, flavorless, bland but correct performance. I take exception to this. This is what music snobs, and people that make mistakes, say. To perform the piece exactly as written can never be “boring, flavorless and bland” unless you’re going to say the composer wrote a boring, flavorless and bland piece. Especially a piece by someone like Beethoven, who not only obsessed over every detail, but was deaf. He only heard the piece in his head, so the notes as written are exactly what he wanted. So to say, “my mistake give it life”, well, that’s the height of arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052/60 "2024-11-11T21:10:31Z")
I think a lot of critics would disagree. There’s a difference between impassioned, inspired playing and solid, mistake-free performance. It’s not a question of changing melodies, but humans definitely change every piece subtly in terms of dynamics and very slight changes in when notes are hit. And when I say slight, I mean almost microscopic. But when it’s all combined, the performance is iconic as opposed to simply “correct.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-classical-musicians-do-it/1010052.md?page=4)