# How do crime bosses run their organizations from prison? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 6, 2020, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429 "2020-07-06T01:50:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/1 "2020-07-06T01:50:44Z")
I’ve read that some mafia/crime-family bosses continued to run the organization from behind bars, and wonder how that is practical. In prison, one’s phone privileges could be cut off, and mail takes a while to arrive. Why didn’t their peers/underlings just say, “He’s in prison, it’s not practical for him to run anything, we’ll appoint a replacement boss instead?” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/2 "2020-07-06T02:36:56Z")
Succession wars usually turn ugly. When the top boss is out, a lot of people think they have the potential to be the new leader. And guys who don’t want the top spot themselves form factions to push for one of the candidates. The resulting conflict usually ends up with several people dead and the organization weaker than it was. So smarter organized crime figures prefer to avoid these struggles. Keeping the current leader even though he is in prison is one way to avoid such a struggle. It’s generally less of a problem than figuring out who will replace him. And figuring out what happens when he gets out of prison. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/3 "2020-07-06T02:43:26Z")
@Velocity, I suspect that you really weren’t looking to post this in The Game Room, so I flagged it for a moderator to move it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/4 "2020-07-06T03:27:49Z")
Woops! I meant General Questions and was sure it was GQ… ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/5 "2020-07-06T03:35:50Z")
Remember Tom Hagen? Prison authorities cannot listen in on a convict’s conversations with his lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/6 "2020-07-06T03:56:31Z")
If they have a crooked lawyer, they can send messages through the lawyer since prison authorities aren’t allowed to listen in on those conversations. They can relay messages through people who have small degrees of contact with the outside. They can also smuggle messages and cell phones into and out of the prison. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/7 "2020-07-06T04:38:54Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Woops! I meant General Questions and was sure it was GQ… So moved. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/8 "2020-07-06T04:50:01Z")
The ability to roll over on them combined with pre-arranged threats keeps the minions in line. The privacy between client and lawyer is one way to pass messages, as is coded phrases between convicts and visitors. Private cell phones can be smuggled in, and bosses can “arrange” to use the phone time of other convict through the granting of favors to convicts and/or guards. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/9 "2020-07-06T06:51:10Z")
Thanks for the replies. But surely there are things that demand immediate attention or immediate response for which you can’t expect an imprisoned person to be available to take a call? Furthermore there are things that would be hard for a boss to understand without being there in person to witness it or figure things out (i.e., sometimes there’s just no substitute for a face-to-face meeting; or like the saying of how 60% of human communication is non-verbal). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/10 "2020-07-06T14:26:28Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > If they have a crooked lawyer, they can send messages through the lawyer since prison authorities aren’t allowed to listen in on those conversations. IANAL, but I’m wondering about this. Would passing on messages really make the lawyer “crooked”? “Tell my cousin Vito that I said he should go ahead as we’ve discussed”. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/11 "2020-07-06T15:22:30Z")
Yes, a lawyer taking an active part in a conspiracy to commit a crime is committing a major ethical and legal violation, though it can be hard to prove. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/12 "2020-07-07T05:20:07Z")
Michael Lloyd was a bank robber who befriended Colombo boss Carmine Persico while they were both in prison. Persico told him that he would use visiting relatives and lawyers to convey messages to the outside, including ordering hits. Apparently Persico trusted Lloyd enough that he even involved Lloyd in writing letters to his lawyers, which prison officials were not allowed to read, that would then be picked up by Persico’s men. For the immediate attention stuff, that’s why a boss will name an acting boss, someone who has the authority to handle what comes up in the here and now. Bonus feature- here’s The Sopranos amusing take on talking in code. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/R39zorMDxb4/hqdefault.jpg "The Sopranos - Johnny Sack's brother in law Anthony Infante") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R39zorMDxb4) ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/13 "2020-07-07T07:15:52Z")
or like in goodfellas they just bought most of the prison officials off who looked the other way and let people in and out let them or let them use the phone ect … ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/14 "2020-07-07T07:21:56Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > they just bought most of the prison officials off These people literally live on the narrow strip between right and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-crime-bosses-run-their-organizations-from-prison/914429/15 "2020-07-07T09:18:02Z")
There’s an amusing story that Rudy Guiliani used to tell, back before he went insane. The FBI had bugged a mafia suspect’s phone that received calls from an imprisoned boss, and discovered that the code word for cocaine was “shirts.” Boss: Hey, you pick up those shirts I asked you about? Goon: Yeah, we got 'em, boss…25 kilos of shirts.