# How do I avoid giving Microsoft money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944 "2012-06-22T15:02:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/21 "2012-06-22T19:05:44Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Not exactly. I’ve read that Microsoft makes more in licensing fees for Android devices than Google does. Wikipedia says, “Microsoft has also sued several manufacturers of Android devices for patent infringement, and collects patent licensing fees from others. In October 2011 Microsoft said they had signed license agreements with ten Android device manufacturers, accounting for 55% of worldwide revenue for Android devices. These include Samsung and HTC.” > > So even with an Android device, some money will be going to Microsoft. Ouch, forgot about that. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/22 "2012-06-22T19:25:49Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I actually thought it was a lot more than that. Thanks for clarifying. > > The bigger problem is ARM devices, where according to the Windows 8 certification, the user will not be allowed to install alternative OSes at all. Frankly, I refuse to pay for a device I do not own, which is part of the reason I won’t buy an iphone or ipad. I’d cross that bridge when I came to it. ARM devices for desktop-ish computing haven’t taken off in the last 5 years, I’m not holding my breath that they’ll take off in the next 2. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/23 "2012-06-22T22:22:59Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > It’s $29.99. > > BTW, my Mac is Microsoft-free. Actually you don’t know how much it is since the OS isn’t sold separately from the machine. The $29.99 is only to upgrade the version you bought with the computer. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/24 "2012-06-23T02:10:01Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > Actually you don’t know how much it is since the OS isn’t sold separately from the machine. The $29.99 is only to upgrade the version you bought with the computer. I downloaded Lion for $29.99 and loaded it after wiping Snow Leopard. I wanted a clean install. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/25 "2012-06-23T02:19:05Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > I downloaded Lion for $29.99 and loaded it after wiping Snow Leopard. I wanted a clean install. … And? How are you refuting his point? ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/26 "2012-06-23T02:36:46Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > … And? How are you refuting his point? Despite early reports to the contrary, Lion doesn’t need Snow Leopard to load. My machine had been running Snow Leopard. I wiped it, then installed the copy of Lion that I had downloaded from Apple. This is [**one page**](http://www.macworld.com/article/1161203/should_you_clean_install_lion.html) of many detailing the procedure. Lion cost $29.99. The next OS, Mountain Lion, will cost $19.99. Like Lion, reports prior to its release say it must load on top of the previous system. We’ll see. [**This page on Mountain Lion**](http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/06/11Mountain-Lion-Available-in-July-From-Mac-App-Store.html) is on Apple’s site. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/27 "2012-06-23T02:38:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 😕 > I thought I was the Rip Van Winkle who’d lost track of American culture, but even I have heard of the Bush-Cheney-Rove Administration which ruled the U.S.A. during 2001-2009. > > Among many other notable achievements they dropped the antitrust case against Microsoft, in which the Clinton Administration was on the verge of a major legal victory. I don’t remember why; perhaps all U.S. Attorneys needed to focus on voter fraud. Perhaps during your Rip Van Winkle impersonation, you forgot that the breakup remedy ordered by Jackson in the antitrust case was thrown out by the appeals court, not by the Bush administration, and they went so far as to say that Jackson should have recused himself. After throwing back to a lower court with a different judge, the Justice Department, under a new administration and with a less absurdly pre-biased judge, opted to settle. The last decade has pretty much verified the theory that a breakup was not necessary to reduce Microsoft’s market power. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/28 "2012-06-23T08:16:00Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Also, I’m kind of looking in the $500-$1000 range, while I think the cheapest Macbook is around $1500 (and something awesome like a Macbook Pro _starts_ at $2500.) While your general point stands, you might want to re-check those [prices](http://store.apple.com/us). ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/29 "2012-06-23T11:33:51Z")
Is your time worth anything to you? Is choice of hardware of any value? Is the time you spend on this laptop hunt worth it so M$ won’t get any of your money by causing your frustration, time and choice? I take it that it is more on principle then to save money, but on this principle it appears even if you win by finding a non-M$ laptop you already lost by what you had to go through and what your limited choices are. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/30 "2012-06-23T12:02:04Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Despite early reports to the contrary, Lion doesn’t need Snow Leopard to load. My machine had been running Snow Leopard. I wiped it, then installed the copy of Lion that I had downloaded from Apple. > > This is [**one page**](http://www.macworld.com/article/1161203/should_you_clean_install_lion.html) of many detailing the procedure. > > Lion cost $29.99. > > The next OS, Mountain Lion, will cost $19.99. Like Lion, reports prior to its release say it must load on top of the previous system. We’ll see. > > [**This page on Mountain Lion**](http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/06/11Mountain-Lion-Available-in-July-From-Mac-App-Store.html) is on Apple’s site. But I could not build a PC then install Lion onto it, the PC would have to have been built by Apple. That’s the Apple tax, making their OS a lot more expensive in reality. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/31 "2012-06-23T19:13:51Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [Custom built laptop.](http://www.pugetsystems.com/laptop.php) I’ve never used this company, just was first in a Google search. > Linux is offered as an OS. > > [Or build your own.](http://computershopper.com/feature/build-your-own-laptop) Those are whiteboxes. Systems built by hp/asus/msi/whoever that a vendor can attach their own branding to or will apply customer branding for them. Generally speaking you cannot “custom build” a laptop you can select larger hard drives or memory or get a blu-ray instead of a dvd, some minor variation in CPU, but thats usually the majority of it. you can order NO O/S laptops from a variety of vendors [http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=-1&isNodeId=1&Description=no+os+laptop&x=0&y=0](http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=-1&isNodeId=1&Description=no+os+laptop&x=0&y=0) that is a search for no o/s laptops on newegg ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/32 "2012-06-24T04:31:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I would like to congratulate you. > > I believe that this is the first “Get a Mac” post that i’ve ever seen on this board that was actually relevant to the topic, rather than a threadshitting swipe at Windows. Do I get more or fewer points for actually being a Microsoft Fangirl IRL? ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/33 "2012-06-24T19:17:17Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I would like to congratulate you. > > I believe that this is the first “Get a Mac” post that i’ve ever seen on this board that was actually relevant to the topic, rather than a threadshitting swipe at Windows. Congratulations. You still manage to make a threadshit swipe at every mention of Macs on these boards even on a thread which even you are forced to admit the post was appropriate. Many times suggesting a Mac is the best answer for someone’s computer question. Hell, most of the time it is. The fact that you get so irrationally angry every time it comes up means that the problem is you. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/34 "2012-06-24T19:59:53Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > Hell, most of the time it is. The fact that you get so irrationally angry every time it comes up means that the problem is you. That’s a straight opinion, and absolutely non-factual. It’s undeniable for similar spec machines you pay an enormous price premium for a Mac, and even their warranty plans are far more expensive than their competition. That means that the only way to justify that price premium is going to be through a set of personal choices and decisions that come down entirely to individual preferences and needs. In the aggregate we have a system which takes the individual choices of many to come up with decisions–it’s called the market, and at least according to the free market Mac PCs are almost overwhelmingly not the right answer for most people who make PC purchasing decisions. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/35 "2012-06-24T21:04:49Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > Many times suggesting a Mac is the best answer for someone’s computer question. Hell, most of the time it is. The fact that you get so irrationally angry every time it comes up means that the problem is you. You never disappoint. As i’ve made clear numerous times on these boards, i think Apple make fantastic computers. My wife has a Macbook Air, which she got at my recommendation. But when someone comes in and asks “How do i fix this trouble i’m having with my Windows computer,” then “Get a Mac” is a threadshitting answer made by assholes, and the fact that you continue to insist that it’s a reasonable response say a lot about you. I praised the response in question precisely because, if the problem you are seeking an answer to is the problem of not giving money to Microsoft, then getting a Mac is a very good solution, as long as you’re willing to also stay away from MS productivity software like Office. I remarked on it precisely because, as i said, it was (and i mean this literally) the first time in my recollection that a “Get a Mac” response has been an on-point and reasonable answer on this message board. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/36 "2012-06-24T21:42:16Z")
> [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > But I could not build a PC then install Lion onto it, the PC would have to have been built by Apple. That’s the Apple tax, making their OS a lot more expensive in reality. This is, in fact, [incorrect](http://www.tonymacx86.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/37 "2012-06-24T21:47:34Z")
I have an HP Touchpad tablet which natively runs webOS and is rooted to run Android ICS. So it avoided whatever Android/MS licensing tax there may be for hardware but I don’t know if HP had to license stuff from MS for its Touchpads. I’m not saying this is practical for you, but I might have inadvertently avoided much of Microsoft’s (and Apple’s) touch. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/38 "2012-06-24T23:50:52Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > This is, in fact, [incorrect](http://www.tonymacx86.com/). Not licensed or legal, any more than the free hacked copy of Windows I can get. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/39 "2012-06-25T11:18:14Z")
I am curious about the motivation to avoid giving Microsoft money. If it’s just practical in that you want to spend less for a computer that’s not entirely unreasonable (although from what I can tell the savings is negligible in most cases.) If it’s philosophical, then it’s sort of like boycotting BP gas stations to hurt BP, it really doesn’t work that way. First, in this age of software patent bonanza all the major tech companies have a mountain of software patents and all the major tech companies are in a constant state of infringement. What this means is most of them have come to licensing agreements in which money will change hands constantly. Google is often paying Microsoft licensing fees, Microsoft is paying other people licensing fees, lots of people are paying IBM licensing fees, Apple is paying people licensing fees and etc. Usually it’s a very small percentage of any sale, sometimes it’s a little larger ( I think with Android Microsoft actually owns a suite of patents that are fairly core to the Android OS which is why they get something like $15/phone out of many of the Android phone makers.) Additionally, the infrastructure of the internet has Microsoft all over it. Something like 50% of the server market is dominated by Windows Server products, a smaller share of the RDBMS market is using SQL Server. There’s no quick and easy way to know which eCommerce sites you visit or even what content you consume on the internet might be hosted on Microsoft OS machines. (Any website that ends in .aspx you can basically assume when you visit it that you’re indirectly giving Microsoft money, though.) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944/40 "2012-06-25T16:15:11Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > If it’s philosophical, then it’s sort of like boycotting BP gas stations to hurt BP, it really doesn’t work that way. While everything you say about Microsoft’s place in the context on computing and the internet is true, if someone is looking to avoid the company for philosophical reasons, then they might simply want to avoid giving Microsoft any of their money directly. It’s possible to do something like this while also realizing that you choice isn’t going to hurt the company financially at all. In such cases, the principle is the most important thing to some people, not the substantive effect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-avoid-giving-microsoft-money/625944.md?page=3)