# How do I buy a P51 Mustang? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980 "2003-04-24T23:58:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/1 "2003-04-24T23:58:02Z")
Any ideas? Are there companies that restore them? Are there companies that make copies? I don’t really care if it was actually built in the 1940’s as long as its built the same and has the same performance. Any idea how much one would cost? Also, could someone with a private pilots license fly a P51, or would they need a lot of additional training and where would one find P51 trainers these days? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/2 "2003-04-25T00:20:16Z")
A [replica for sale](http://adcache.aerotraderonline.com/2/9/6/41829496.htm). He wants $205K for 50% ownership. [Here](http://www.p51.mustangsmustangs.com/p51sforsale/4413016mar2003.shtml)’s a real one for sale. ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/3 "2003-04-25T00:22:10Z")
Like this one? [http://www.nextaircraft.com/cgw/viu1706/](http://www.nextaircraft.com/cgw/viu1706/) Try doing a google seach for “aircraft sales P51 Mustang” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/4 "2003-04-25T00:33:21Z")
[http://www.barnstormers2000.com/show\_ads.asp?Category=P-51+Mustang&MainCat=North+American&startwith=0&first=1](http://www.barnstormers2000.com/show_ads.asp?Category=P%2D51+Mustang&MainCat=North+American&startwith=0&first=1) > [@](#): > > NORTH AMERICAN P-51 MUSTANG • AVAILABLE FOR SALE!! … This is one of the Finest P-51 Mustangs In The World! Oshkosh 2001 Silver Lindy Best P-51 Winner! 80 Hours Since 100% Restoration, Military Configuration! Guns & Ammo in Both Wings, Heavy Ammo & Gun Bay Doors, Bomb Racks. Engine By Frontier Aviation, Stock Instrument Panel, Hamilton Standard Prop, Heavy Landing Gear, 5 Bolt Tail Wheel, New Fuel Tanks, Harrison Radiator, Pre Oiler, Jump Seat. No Expenses Spared In Restoration Of This North American P-51 D! This Aircraft Was Completely Disassembled With Each Part Being Cleaned, Inspected, Primed, and Reassembled, Also With Many New Old Stock Parts Going Into This Airplane. Asking Price $1,550,000 ---
**Author:** ![ski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@ski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ski)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/5 "2003-04-25T01:30:58Z")
In response to your last question, I imagine that since there is no civilian equivalent aircraft to the P-51, that it would fly in the experimental category. As such, there are no additional requirements for you to pilot it as long as you have a private pilot’s license with complex and high-performance endorsements in your logbook (since it’s got retractable gear and greater than 200 hp). Not to say that you wouldn’t NEED training, though. And insurance companies will have their own requirements for you. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/6 "2003-04-25T01:38:21Z")
A private pilot’s license with proper complex/high-performance sign-offs in a log book are the only _requirements_ for a civilian flying a (decomissioned\*) P-51. _However,_ additional training in that particular airplane with an experienced and knowledgable instructor is _strongly_ recommended. The [Experimental Aviation Association (EAA)](http://www.eaa.org/) has a sub-group devoted to warbirds - history, restoriation, and flying of same. You might want to contact them for more information. - Not a snowball’s chance in hell the Feds will let you fly one with the weaponry still installed, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/7 "2003-04-25T01:41:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, could someone with a private pilots license fly a P51, or would they need a lot of additional training and where would one find P51 trainers these days? Following up **ski** ’s post. The Mustang is not the same as a typical General Aviation aircraft. IIRC, you can crash it if you advance the throttle too quickly on take-off because of the enormous torque put out by that big Merlin. While all you _need_ is a private license, you will probably _not_ be able to find insurance until you have a bunch of hours and a lot of training. But how do you train to fly a P-51? In WWII pilots would start out in the T-6 Texan. You _might_ be able to find someone with a T-6/SNJ/Harvard who would be willing to teach you. If you’re spending $1.5 million, you might as well spend an extra $100,000 or so and buy an SNJ. With you’re own aircraft it might be easier to find someone willing to train you. You might also look into similar Eastern Bloc training aircraft. Of course the P-51 has a lot more performance than an SNJ. How do you “step up”? I don’t know. But if you log a bunch of hours in an SNJ you’ll be much closer to your goal of flying the P-51. (Personally, I’d rather have a Spitfire Mk.V.) ---
**Author:** ![ski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@ski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ski)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/8 "2003-04-25T02:08:17Z")
As a side note, and to expand on my own post (bad form?): If a military aircraft has a civilian equivalent (like the KC-10 which is based on a DC-10, or a C-21 which is a Lear 25 (?)) then a pilot must meet all the applicable requirements for the civilian version of the airplane, including type ratings if applicable. Heck, there are military versions of the Cessna 172. To fly one you would need the same ratings as to fly a civilian version (ASEL). But if the military aircraft doesn’t have a civilian equivalent, then you need only possess the applicable category and class rating to fly it. Since I have an airplane single-engine land rating, if I could legally buy an F-16, I could legally fly it. Though it’s a jet there is no type rating requirement since there is no civilian equivalent. But if I bought an F-15, I could not fly it, since it’s a multi-engine land airplane, which I am not rated for. Heck, if I did have an AMEL rating I could legally fly a B-52 with all 8 of its jet engines! Not to say that any of the above statements are smart, just that they’re legal from the FAA’s point of view. I really need a cite for this stuff, I know, but I have gathered this information over the last few months by piecing together various aspects of the FARs and various official interpretations of them. The FAA’s FAR FAQs make pretty interesting reading. ---
**Author:** ![aeropl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f05b48/32.png) [@aeropl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aeropl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/9 "2003-04-25T03:24:58Z")
There’s a 3/4 scale Mustang I see flying around here all the time. It’s also stored in a hanger I visit frequently so if I see the owner I’ll ask how he obtained it. I doubt there are companies that make copies of P51’s, but it might be available in kit form. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/10 "2003-04-25T04:04:56Z")
If you are really serious about doing this, you might want to spend a few minutes considering whether you _should._ Obviously, only a finite number of these wonderful aircraft still exist, some in museums, some in private hands. Many in the latter category are kept in flying condition and flown in airshows, air races, or just for the owner’s pleasure. And every so often one of them crashes and is destroyed beyond the possibility of repair, to say nothing of the fate of its pilot. When this happens another little part of our heritage is lost forever. I used to work at the National Air and Space Museum, and the curators there have a standing (but respectful) debate with the airshow community about the propriety of continuing to fly irreplaceable historic artifacts. Airshow folks insist that people have see, hear, and feel these planes in their natural working state to have a real understanding of their role in history, and that they shouldn’t all be relegated to static museum exhibits. (Once a plane has been preserved for a museum 's collection, it is very difficult to return it to flying condition.) Curators answer that as long as they are flown, they will be destroyed, and that eventually the only ones left will be in museums. So consider if you are willing to take this risk with a priceless piece of history. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/11 "2003-04-25T04:11:44Z")
He could go for a replica and have just as much fun without chippin’ on the historic stable. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/12 "2003-04-25T04:34:53Z")
Just the nature of the question infers you don’t have your license yet. If you’re incredibly wealthy, and want to die, then yes, you can own and fly a P51 Mustang. It is not an entry level airplane (very cool though). If you truly want to fly something reminiscent of a P51 then go to Oskosh this year (it’s the 100th anniversary of flight) and look at all the kit planes that you can build. You will be amazed at the variety. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/13 "2003-04-25T05:29:41Z")
There is at least one company in Florida that will sell you stick time in a 2-seat Mustang. So if you want to fly one, but don’t have a handy million-and-a-half lying around in your dresser, just take an ‘adventure holiday’ and buy yourself some P-51 stick time. I’m sure lots of people use that aircraft for transition training as well. ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/14 "2004-05-22T11:26:27Z")
Doesn’t Tom Cruise own a P-51 Mustang? \*( I only ask because I do not know) \* ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/15 "2004-05-22T12:01:42Z")
Not a P-51, but you might visit here. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/16 "2004-05-22T12:26:12Z")
> [@ski](#): > > And insurance companies will have their own requirements for you. I’ll bet. First laugh of my day. I’m sure your statement is true, and was not meant to be funny… but. Snerk…Snort…ha. Ya, I’ll bet it’s not to easy to insure a P51. Heh. Sign here. Put your first born sons name here… > [@commasense](#): > > I used to work at the National Air and Space Museum In Dayton? What an amazing place. I drug my jaw on the ground all through there. I was in Dayton for a wedding 2 years ago, and one thing to do was to go to the museum. Cool. I like planes. I had no idea what I was in for. Amazing place. Simply amazing. Anyone with a passing interest in planes OR history should see this museum. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/17 "2004-05-22T12:35:30Z")
Long time professional pilot here … I second what the others said about legal requirements versus insurance requirements versus practical requirements. General comment about replicas. They are replicas only in the shape. They look roughly like a P51. I’ve never seen or heard of one with performance meaningfully better than a typical lightplane. If you’re interested in appraoching the P51’s performance, rather than the P51’s looks, there are a few fairly potent homebuilt/experiments out there. Figure to spend a $150K-$250K getting one built, plus $50K to learn to fly and to learn to fly it. If you’re really interested, I strongly recommend the EAA, as somebody already mentioned . They have folks who know _everything_ about this stuff who’s only job is to help you get fired up enough to do it. Finally, here’s a flying maxim from the pro’s, one you should think about: A fool and his money are soon flying more airplane than he can handle. These machines are not toys and they can kill you very quickly and efficiently. I’ve flown lightplanes with folks who’d be safer juggling chain saws. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/18 "2004-05-23T06:45:13Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by commasense > > I used to work at the National Air and Space Museum > > In Dayton? What an amazing place. I drug my jaw on the ground all through there. I was in Dayton for a wedding 2 years ago, and one thing to do was to go to the museum. Cool. I like planes. > > I had no idea what I was in for. Amazing place. Simply amazing. Anyone with a passing interest in planes OR history should see this museum. No, I worked at the [Smithsonian’s](http://www.nasm.si.edu/) museum in Washington, DC. You’re thinking of the [USAF Museum](http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/index.htm). Excellent museum, but not _quite_ as good as NASM, especially now that they’ve opened the [Udvar Hazy Center](http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/udvarhazy/) near Dulles Airport. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/19 "2004-05-23T11:00:46Z")
First, you should know that highly experienced warbird pilots have crashed and died flying these things. Owning a P51, you will, no doubt, be tempted to do aerobatics and beat-ups etc. For the sake of your family, learn how to do it safely. If you really are serious, a standard progression would be a T6 rating and plenty of experience and then do some flying in the T6 from the back seat, this more closely approximates the view from a P51 cockpit on landing. There are a number of 2 seat P51s around so you can do duel in it before you solo. A luxury you don’t have in many WW2 fighters. If you just want the performance you can get jets which are easier to fly, go faster, and cost less to buy. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980/20 "2004-05-23T18:11:50Z")
Just in case the recent posters haven’t noticed, this thread is more than a year old, so presumably the OP has made a decision about getting or not getting a P-51 by now. I was reading through it, and thinking I would add a post, when I came across a post that said pretty much exactly what I was going to say. When I got to the place where it said, “I used to work at the National Air and Space Museum…” I thought, wait a minute, who is this guy? And then realized it was me! I looked at the date – April – and thought, I wrote this only _a month ago_ and forgot it that quickly?!? I must be getting senile! Then I looked again: April 2003! Whew! My brain isn’t quite that decrepit. Yet. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-buy-a-p51-mustang/170980.md?page=2)