# How do I counter the the flu v COVID-19 argument? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 13, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427 "2020-03-13T18:15:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/123 "2020-03-17T23:44:42Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > So my mother, who is of a certain vintage, informs me that she doesn’t remember polio being as big a deal as corona virus. My own memories don’t go back that far. > > Is their a valid comparison to be made there? How old is your mother? My father was just old enough to get it as a child, not old enough to experience the epidemic the way an adult would. And he would have been in his mid-80s now if he was still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/124 "2020-03-17T23:48:59Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > How old is your mother? My father was just old enough to get it as a child, not old enough to experience the epidemic the way an adult would. And he would have been in his mid-80s now if he was still alive. That’s about the same age as my mother. I was just wondering about the relative casualty rate for Covid 19 v Polio. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/125 "2020-03-18T00:43:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not sure if this is relevant to your dispute with UV, which I’ve not been following closely, but I believe your claim that the spread is exponential is incorrect. > > Firstly, it’s likely that some percentage of the population is either immune or at least highly resistant to the virus would initially spread disproportionately among those most vulnerable to it, and the rate of spread would slow when it turns to those less vulnerable. Not only is this not at all likely, it is patently untrue. This is a new virus, meaning there is no preexisting immunity in the population. [Cite](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/summary.html). Also, it appears that the virus is [spreading more rapidly](https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html) in those with mild symptoms, or not yet showing symptoms. And just because you contract the virus from someone who only has mild symptoms [does not mean](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/health/coronavirus-statistics-undetected.html) that _you_ will experience mild symptoms. > [@New York Times](#): > > “Just because you get the disease from someone with mild symptoms does not mean yours are going to be mild,” Dr. Shaman said. “You could still end up in the I.C.U.” > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Second, the number of available targets per infected individual decreases as the number of infected individuals increases. For example, if someone is the first case in his country/city/community, then everyone he comes into contact with is a potential target and a target of him alone. Let’s suppose that’s 50 people. If half the city is already carriers, then it’s obviously impossible for the number of potential targets in that city to be 50 times the number already carrying the virus. There will be some spread outside the city, obviously, but it won’t be nearly 50 times the number of cases in the city. And so on. The first half of your objection is trivial. You are basically saying that exponential growth stops once everyone is infected (or dead). No shit. :rolleyes: The point is that we are trying to avoid everyone getting infected…or at least slow the rate of new infections down so as to not overwhelm the hospitals and available medical treatment. The second half of your statement makes no sense. Because it only takes one person to spread the virus, and because there are lots and lots of cities and communities of people in the world, why do you believe that there can’t be more than 50 times the number of cases outside of your hypothetical city? This is especially true with modern travel. In the last few months, I’ve traveled to every New England state, Florida, Utah, Colorado, British Columbia, and the Bahamas. I’m just one person. That’s why they are shutting travel down and telling people to stay home. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/126 "2020-03-18T01:13:13Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > So my mother, who is of a certain vintage, informs me that she doesn’t remember polio being as big a deal as corona virus. My own memories don’t go back that far. > > Is their a valid comparison to be made there? I’ll observe, not compare. My aunt, born just over a century ago, had childhood polio and hobbled on crutches. My next door neighbor girl, and the daughter of one of my dad’s co-workers, both my own age and whose families we socialized with, survived in [iron lungs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_lung). Infantile paralysis, [polio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio), was common, obvious, and terrible, a constant horror for parents during the 20th century’s first half. The Koprowski, Salk, and Sabin vaccines changed the world. COVID has just begun. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/127 "2020-03-18T02:58:15Z")
> [@robby](#): > > … Also, it appears that the virus is [spreading more rapidly](https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html) in those with mild symptoms, or not yet showing symptoms. … Your cite does _not_ support your claim. > [@](#): > > Several experts interviewed by CNN said while it’s unclear exactly what percentage of the transmission in the outbreak is fueled by people who are obviously sick versus those who have no symptoms or very mild symptoms, it’s become clear that transmission by people who are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic is responsible for more transmission than previously thought. is not … NOT … even if that was a consensus of most experts … a claim that you made. As far as growth … it is NOT that “that exponential growth stops once everyone is infected (or dead)”. A very basic model of growth is [the SIR model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_modelling_of_infectious_disease#The_SIR_model) - there are three compartments: those susceptible to the disease (S); those infected with it and spreading it (I); and those who have immunity to it such as because of having recovered from infection (inclusive of asymptomatic infection). As R increases there is less exposure of S to I and growth slows down. It is the basic of herd immunity. Yeah F-P is still mistaken - but you aint quite right either. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/128 "2020-03-18T03:09:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Your cite does _not_ support your claim. > > is not … NOT … even if that was a consensus of most experts … a claim that you made. > > As far as growth … it is NOT that “that exponential growth stops once everyone is infected (or dead)”. A very basic model of growth is [the SIR model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_modelling_of_infectious_disease#The_SIR_model) - there are three compartments: those susceptible to the disease (S); those infected with it and spreading it (I); and those who have immunity to it such as because of having recovered from infection (inclusive of asymptomatic infection). As R increases there is less exposure of S to I and growth slows down. It is the basic of herd immunity. Yeah F-P is still mistaken - but you aint quite right either. Mine does: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=891961](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=891961) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/129 "2020-03-18T05:22:16Z")
Almost but not quite. Not “more rapidly.” More _commonly_ - which makes perfect sense because once people are sick they quarantine. > [@](#): > > These undocumented infections are about half as contagious as documented infections because people are not coughing and sneezing. > > Yet they were found to be responsible for about two-thirds of documented infections – because they are so abundant. … > > … “We’re seeing just the tip of the iceberg. How much is submerged – five times? Ten times? We can argue about what the exact number is, but if you’re not in a place where you can proactively sample and test, the majority of infections will be undetected.” Many times more than we know are infected also of course implies that the infection fatality rate would be several times smaller. It remains a key question: how big is the iceberg? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/130 "2020-03-18T12:08:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Almost but not quite. Not “more rapidly.” More _commonly_… In the context of a virus spreading through the community, what’s the difference between “more rapidly” and “more commonly”? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/131 "2020-03-18T19:37:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Your cite does _not_ support your claim. Did you read the whole [article](https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html)? > [@](#): > > “Asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic transmission are a major factor in transmission for Covid-19,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a professor at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine and longtime adviser to the CDC. “They’re going to be the drivers of spread in the community.” > [@](#): > > On Tuesday, Dr. Sandra Ciesek, director of the Institute of Medical Virology in Frankfurt, Germany, tested 24 passengers who had just flown in from Israel. Seven of the 24 passengers tested positive for coronavirus. Four of those had no symptoms, and Ciesek was surprised to find that the viral load of the specimens from the asymptomatic patients was higher than the viral load of the specimens from the three patients who did have symptoms. > > Viral load is a measure of the concentration of the virus in someone’s respiratory secretions. A higher load means that someone is more likely to spread the infection to other people. > [@](#): > > …Of the 135 people in the Tianjin cluster, between 62% and 77% caught it from someone was pre-symptomatic. Here’s some more recent [information](https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-17/how-silent-spreaders-are-fueling-the-coronavirus-pandemic): > [@](#): > > In the period before the Chinese government threw up a massive barricade around the province of Hubei to block the coronavirus’ escape, almost 9 out of 10 infections were transmitted by carriers who were still healthy, according to a new simulation of the virus’ spread. > > Compared with a person who was sick enough to have his or her infection confirmed in the pandemic’s early days, an infected person with symptoms mild enough to escape official documentation was about half as likely to infect another person, the analysis found. > > But since these “undocumented” carriers so outnumbered those whose infections were confirmed, their effect was far greater, the researchers who conducted the simulation found. They concluded that in the outbreak’s earliest days — between Jan. 10 and Jan. 23 — people well enough to have stayed out of the hospital probably played a key role in the coronavirus’ explosive spread. The same article also indicates what works and what does not: > [@](#): > > On a landscape where unseen spreaders are both numerous and difficult to detect and avoid, the researchers warned that measures such as screening people for fever or illness at public events or national borders will do little to slow the virus’ spread. While more disruptive to the public, restrictions on travel and social interaction that cover healthy as well as sick people will have more success, they said. > [@DSeid](#): > > …As far as growth … it is NOT that “that exponential growth stops once everyone is infected (or dead)”. A very basic model of growth is [the SIR model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_modelling_of_infectious_disease#The_SIR_model) - there are three compartments: those susceptible to the disease (S); those infected with it and spreading it (I); and those who have immunity to it such as because of having recovered from infection (inclusive of asymptomatic infection). As R increases there is less exposure of S to I and growth slows down. It is the basic of herd immunity. Yeah F-P is still mistaken - but you aint quite right either. From your link: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > R(t) is the compartment used for those individuals who have been infected and then removed from the disease, either due to immunization or due to death. Those in this category are not able to be infected again or to transmit the infection to others. I’m not sure what your point is. There are currently just over [7,000 reported cases](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html) in the U.S. The population of the U.S. is over 300 million. There are plenty of uninfected people in the country (_S_) such that exponential growth can continue for longer than any of us would like. Yes, of course as _R_ increases, exponential growth will slow. However, in the absence of a vaccine or other controls (like social distancing), the only way that _R_ can increase to the point that it affects that exponential growth is for a significant fraction of the population to become infected. This will likely result in the death of millions of people. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/132 "2020-03-19T09:41:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > […] This is what we get for putting anti-intellectuals in charge. > > Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk Congratulations and thank you for this very well written post. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/133 "2020-03-19T09:52:25Z")
> [@robby](#): > > In the context of a virus spreading through the community, what’s the difference between “more rapidly” and “more commonly”? One possible difference, as I understand it: More rapidly: One person gets infected in the morning. He feels unwell in the evening (that is rapidity). He stays at home the next morning, has only had the chance to infect X people before self-quarantining. More commonly: One person gets infected in the morning of day one. He feels well at least one week, maybe two or does not show any simptoms at all, but can still transmit the virus to others (Y) that may (or may not) develop simptoms. Those people will also transmit the virus to more people (Z) before feeling unwell. More people get infected and more people get sick than in the first case. Y \> X Y + Z \> X ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/134 "2020-03-19T20:48:45Z")
> [@robby](#): > > …Also, it appears that the virus is [spreading more rapidly](https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html) in those with mild symptoms, or not yet showing symptoms. > [@robby](#): > > In the context of a virus spreading through the community, what’s the difference between “more rapidly” and “more commonly”? > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > One possible difference, as I understand it: > More rapidly: One person gets infected in the morning. He feels unwell in the evening (that is rapidity). He stays at home the next morning, has only had the chance to infect X people before self-quarantining. > More commonly: One person gets infected in the morning of day one. He feels well at least one week, maybe two or does not show any simptoms at all, but can still transmit the virus to others (Y) that may (or may not) develop simptoms. Those people will also transmit the virus to more people (Z) before feeling unwell. More people get infected and more people get sick than in the first case. Nobody was talking about how rapidly someone develops symptoms after being infected. We were talking about how rapidly the virus is spreading through the community. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/135 "2020-03-20T03:29:34Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Did you read the whole [article](https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html)? … Yes I did. When I read “more rapidly” I understand it to mean that individuals who are asymptomatic are more contagious than those who are symptomatic. Best estimate is closer to half as contagious. But if we are talking about which population in aggregate is responsible for more of the spread, then the asymptomatic, minimally symptomatic, and prodromal, in aggregate are spreading it more, simply because there are so many more of them, most uncounted and unrecognized, and because those more symptomatic are not out and about at all. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/136 "2020-03-20T03:52:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How many Americans (A) have died because of the flu this year? How many have (B) died due to COVID-19? > > Until B \> A, morons will think “No big deal” no matter how many scientists or doctors or other “Fake News” people tell us different. Sorry to be cynical, but in about three months time, when there are somewhere between half a million and 2.5 million dead in just the USA alone (if we do nothing), we won’t be hearing the “no big deal” argument so much any more. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/137 "2020-03-21T01:07:39Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How many Americans (A) have died because of the flu this year? How many have (B) died due to COVID-19? What I haven’t seen is mention of how this is too early to measure mortality. The disease has not run its course in most of the recently infected and many of the people shown as infected today may be dead next week. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/138 "2020-03-21T03:27:26Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I tend not to argue with people who say that. Maybe a little back and forth to see where it goes, but if someone doesn’t understand that while they’re correct, the lack of seat belt made no difference, it’s because they never got into a (serious) car accident. Some people can grasp that, many other’s can’t or won’t. > Someone on FB said that yesterday. The person is normally pretty smart and level headed so if may have been a sarcastic comment. In either case, I responded that the reason Y2K didn’t amount to much is because a lot of programmers spent a lot of time writing, testing and pushing out patches to make sure everything went as smoothly as possible. > If we had simply ignored it, the way people want to ignore this, we would have had a lot of problems. Maybe not ‘planes dropping out of the sky’ problems. But a lot more problems than people realized. The other day I was making that same point on my FB wall, and mentioned that my sister-in-law was part of that effort, only to have a Doper (I don’t recall his screen name) chime in saying the following: > [@](#): > > I was in that effort. Largest client gig was a hospital system. Only found four systems out of literally thousands that would have failed. Two of _those,_ however, would have killed people: ER surgical suite oxygen supply, and ICU oxygen supply. He \*literally \*saved lives from the Y2K bug. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/139 "2020-03-22T01:15:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Korea shows why there is a need to test more; however, the death rate I have seen reported is still higher than the flu. I agree it might be higher than the flu but the death rate in Korea is closer the the truth than 5% or whatever other extraordinarily high number people are throwing around. But even in Korea, the health care system was so overloaded that diagnosis of COVID 19 in mild cases is almost impossible because health care worker had to take care of people who were really ill. If you had a manageable symptoms, you were encouraged just to stay home and stay isolated. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/140 "2020-03-22T01:17:54Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Two reasons: > [ul] > [li]The mortality rate for COVID-19 is at least an order of magnitude greater than that of influenza.[/li][li]The number of cases of COVID-19 are increasing exponentially.[/li][/ul] > Note that “exponentially” is not a synonym for “a lot.” It’s a mathematical term. > > [When a danger is growing exponentially, everything looks fine until it doesn’t](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/10/coronavirus-what-matters-isnt-what-you-can-see-what-you-cant/) > > The problem isn’t the current number of cases. It’s how many cases we will have in a few weeks or months. > > More detail here: > [Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now](https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca) most humans can’t grokk exponential growth. This is the closest I have gotten to getting most people to understanding it. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mcskckuosxQ/hqdefault.jpg "80'S FABERGE ORGANICS SHAMPOO COMMERCIAL W HEATHER LOCKLEAR WAYNE'S WORLD SPOOF") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcskckuosxQ) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/141 "2020-03-22T01:20:29Z")
In the end, we will never know if we overreacted. It will be painfully clear if we underreacted. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427/142 "2020-03-26T21:18:46Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > This was beautiful. I want to give **monstro** ’s post a standing ovation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-counter-the-the-flu-v-covid-19-argument/849427.md?page=8)